Smatt

Are PIAA Bulbs that much better than other makes.
I am looking at upgrading mine. Autobulbs do some fantastic prices for there stock, but PIAA are at least twice as much. Are they worth the price.
I have an 04 STi are these bulbs correct:
9005/HB3 Main beam
H1 Dipped
501 Side lights

richiewong

Don't bother they are over priced for what you get.
On my old scoob went from PIAA to Osram Silverstars.

Just fitted H1 dipped Osrams to my 04. Need to test them out next time its dark, but if they are like my old ones then I'll have no complaints

Got them from www.powerbulbs.co.uk

richiewong

And how to detango and get to the sidelights, pain in the **** to get the screws out near the grill
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=261820

Autolamps

Piaa spend a fortune on advertising and are constrained because their quality is not good enough for the OE market. Therefore they have EXCELLENT marketing coming up with very good packaging and names they think will appeal. All of this tied to their home market in Japan which has some of the highest bulb prices in the world means you are paying a fortune for little or no unique benefit.

Own brand product as you can guess is sourced in China where you can buy an H4 for 25p and then sold for huge mark ups. Again the performance and quality is very second rate but that’s what the Brits buy. The UK is the only country in Europe where the customer pays European prices but for Asian sourced goods.

98% of what is sold in the UK aftermarket is sourced in China, Korea or Eastern Europe. The majority of Asian bulb makers have an approach of 'well it looks like a lamp therefore it is'. The UK aftermarket is renowned for it 15 km strategy. This means if you have driven 15 km and the lamp fails you won’t be bothered to go back. How many people have had a failed lamp and taken it back for a replacement. This is exploited and love them or hate them mainland Europe would not accept this rip off policy

Your best options are look for a recognised OE brand (the car manufacturers spend millions on bulb research to get the best) and these are primarily Philips, Osram or GE. Then it’s simply a matter of identifying which technology you want, styling, performance, life etc.


Nick
autolamps-online.com
hid-online.com

GREGGYG

iTrader: (2)

Firstly, PIAA's are superb, I have had then on several of my cars in the past. Forget rip-off England prices, go to www.ebay.com NOT .co.uk, and type in PIAA bulbs. There are a few sellers there, based in USA and Japan who will sell you the PIAA bulbs of your choice, plus express air mail postage, all for around £38, and you'll have them within 7 days of ordering!

Secondly, remember the golden rule when upgrading headlamps. If the bulb does not EMIT around 100w or more, you are wasting your money. PIAA bulbs draw 55w current,(therefore do not overheat you wiring or headlamp lens), yet emit 100-110w, which is where you get the extra brightness. Other upgrade bulbs draw 55w current and emit 55w, so you won't notice much difference! Hope this helps.

Chelspeed

> PIAA bulbs draw 55w current,(therefore do not overheat you wiring or
> headlamp lens), yet emit 100-110w

Since that contravenes one of Newtons laws, the conservation of energy one, it's physically impossible.

I think they say something like their blub emits the same amount of light as a competitors blub would if it were drawing 110W.

Whether it does or not is another issue on which I'm not qualified to comment as I've not tried them.

Autolamps

Exactly as I said you can buy either Philips, Osram or GE at a higher quality as good if not better performance for £18.00. So you paid £20 for some marketing and packaging. However PIAA are better than the bulk of the UK aftermarket but your comment bare out what I said in the first paragraph.

The marketing ' Gives as much light as 100w with only 55w' is as follows

Rally lamps of 100w halogens achieve their performance by high lumen (lms) output by drawing more current. This over heats your wiring, switches and the headlamp or reflector system. The life is also very short. The +50% lamps such as PIAA, PHILIPS etc have a higher luminance filament of a standard wattage. This means you have brighter light on the road in the beam and is measured in cdm2. This cdm2 is the same as the Rally lamp achieves and as such the claim. This is the science and reality behind the claim. This for OE brand products is proven in both laboratory trials and independent tests. What you get from ''own brand'' claims is just that claims and no evidence

Nick
www.autolamps-online.com
www.hid-online.com

Mungo

watts(W) are a unit of electrical power, not of current - that is amperes (A). However, as power is an expression of how much energy is being converted over time, and energy is proportional to current, your point is pretty much the same.

As has already been pointed out, a bulb cannot emit more power than it draws from you car's electrical system. The brightness of the bulb does not necessarily depend on the power or current - just look at the "energy conserving" household light bulbs which are only about 12W but provide the same light as a 60W regular bulb. However, they are WAY more expensive.

jimmyu.r.uk

seen these-


The xemax headlamp booster kit is an affordable alternative to HID lights and give 250 % brighter lights!
Just so you know theres chioces out there.

RaymondH

I paid a small fortune for the PIAA draw-55W-perform-like-100+W bulbs for my classic a year ago and they are the biggest waste of money imho. There is so much light scatter that the lights can't be set up properly (they won't focus on the beam setter) and I have to use them with the lights turned down to position 3 on the dash adjustment switch otherwise I get flashed all the time. They will be going into the bin soon - I wouldn't even try to sell them. Also, at the end of the day, you can fit the best bulbs in the world but even though you might see an improvement they won't be able to compensate for a crap headlight design

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Or badly set up lights, or some monkey at the MoT station who found they were a LITTLE high, so screwed 'em down about 6 turns without checking the result, and probably turned the side to side adjuster first too

Alcazar

rallyfan1977

I've had PIAA bulbs fitted to my MY03 for over a year now, they were the first upgrade I did, and I wouldn't go back.
I bought them from David Hendry, as I wanted to make sure I didn't get bulbs that got so hot they melted the plastic lenses of the headlights.

They are a great deal brighter than the OE ones, and, as long as they are aligned correctly, they make night driving down my local lanes much more enjoyable!!

Tim-H

I use PIAA 135/180w (genuine w) ceramic based bulbs, they aint cheep but they are very good , I also use thier silicon wiper blades, as I said, they aint cheep but they are very good
Tim

3rd one down
http://www.piaa.co.uk/bulbs/bulbshow.asp?ID=halogen

REVOLUTION

iTrader: (7)

Hi Guys
Not wanting to get into a slanging match but I just want to add my opinion on the matter regarding PIAA and quality issues.

Nick, your comments about PIAA bulbs not being good enough for the OE market are untrue and "maybe"
highlight a lack of knowledge on this subject of which you have an opinion on.
I think before you comment on such, you should actually do your homework to educate yourself a little more prior to commenting about the OE market.

Your website also quotes "Previous Customers as Hella, Magneti Marelli, Valeo, Bosch, Koito, Shell, ADI, Ford, General Motors, Toyota,Nissan,Fiat,Rover,Aston Martin, Jaguar, Hyundai, Daewoo."
Have you supplied these personally as your website suggests????????

You will find that the reason for many premium branded products in the automotive industry not being fitted to OE to cars from the factory is the fact that car manufactures expect to pay next to nothing for the products and suppliers cannot simply afford to supply at these rock bottom prices.
You only need to look at companies like Halfords, Tescos and other high street stores that stock products that fit a price that suits them, I'm sure PIAA would never let their products be sold in this type of store. Also PIAA dont charge £20.00 for marketing and packaging on top of a cheap bulb.
If you care to look at the Motorsport and the auto tuning industry, you will find that manufacturers
such as Subaru, Mitsubishi, Skoda and various others chose PIAA out of choice on performance and
quality....could these all be wrong?????

I don't know you personally Nick, so I dont want to slag you off in any shape or form just PIAA need defending when comments come from a business rather than a personal opinion and you could leave yourself open for a legal action if you carry on slagging off competitors products in that way publicly.

Also are you an Authorised Advertiser on scoobynet as you have a weblink on all of your postings???

At Revolution we used to supply Ring, Philips and the like and to be fair they are good bulbs nowt' wrong with them but we felt that ourselves and our customers wanted better performance and quality so we introduced PIAA a few years ago and never looked back and have since stopped selling lesser priced lighting as demand dropped off.
Personally I've used PIAA for about 8yrs and I'm still over the moon with their quality, same goes for the wipers and other products they manufacture which I personally feel are "over engineered" in some cases.
As for buying PIAA from outside of the UK online, go for it if you feel the savings are worth it - but if there's ever a warranty issue your high and dry whereas UK stockists can sort out any problems straight away in most cases.

Often "ripp off" Britain is also over used (although I do understand the situtaion in the UK at times) , I dont think WE ripp off our customers and nor does PIAA ripp off Revolution, we make a margin and I can assure you it's not massive......are us retailers not allowed to make a profit???
To be honest, most of the time there is more profit to be made in selling cheaper bulbs as they are less expensive to manufacture and margins are greater.

If every retailer and Subaru dealer closed their stores and we all went online to bring prices down where would we all go for technical support and good service???
Is this not why we all love our Scoobs so much because of the development work Subaru put into each model and we all reap the benefit of this technology - albeit at a premium.

I think it's a case of you cant please all the people all the time with any product, that's why someone buys a Scoob and another buys a Ford - different markets for different people.
If anyone buys PIAA from ourselves and is not completely satisfied within 48hrs they are more than welcome to bring them back for an exchange or a full refund. Richie, if we'd known you didnt like yours you should have said so and I would have took them back no problem for a "top quality hassle free refund or exchange".

Okay, thats my two penneth on the subject and hopefully that balances out the discussion a little.
Glenn
Revolution
www.revolution.eu.com

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Ho ho, I'm sure Nick can defend himself if he feels it worth it, but IMHO, what Nick DOESN'T know about bulbs and lighting ain't worth knowing

Alcazar

REVOLUTION

iTrader: (7)

Fair point, but I'm not questioning his product knowledge - more of his knowledge of the market and of his competitors.

Glenn

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Not often I would disagree with you Glenn and I have no idea who Nick is but I agree with his comments.
Two Winters ago, with others I did extensive testing on H4 headlamp bulbs. This included uprated wiring to the headlamps on my STi 6 Wagon to handle the heavier current draw for "off road rally bulbs".
We tried various bulbs including 3 different sets from PIAA, 130W / 90 (rally)from at least two manufacturers, plus 50 bulbs from Osram and Phillips and plus 60 from General Electric (GE) and several other pairs of bulbs including Ring.
To validate our own conclusions we did tests with guinea pigs who did not know which bulbs were fitted during each test.
Both the PIAA Blue and White bulbs performed poorly.
Against expectation the 130W bulbs did not produce the best vision although they may have produced the brightest light. I concluded that the problem with them was to do with the focus and where these bulbs threw the light.
From our tests the best performers were the GE plus 60 closely followed by the Osram and Phillips plus 50. This result surprised us but it was clearly backed up by the independant testing.
There was no need to go to the effort of uprating the wiring to the headlights and in view of the expense, the PIAA were a very big disappointment.

richiewong

No problems until I decided to try Osrams and found them much better.
Also killed one of them when trying to unplug the connector and the pin sheared off

REVOLUTION

iTrader: (7)

Interesting reading Harvey, never tried the 130W myself and I know your not biased in anyway (until it comes to lager).

Also Richie, couldnt expect anything else from you could we -LOL.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I still have a set of PIAA Super White H4 80/80W..."=135/115W" bulbs here. Lovely boxed product. Will have seen 3 or 4hrs use max. perhaps only half of that.
Make me a reasonable offer.

Cheers Glenn. If its good enough for the Invergraw grouse beaters then its good enough for me.

Tim-H

harvey
Is there any links to the results / test`s used / Wiring upgrade used on your test`s ? did you test / record the voltage`s tested at ? as I am interested in your coment that ;There was no need to go to the effort of uprating the wiring to the headlights " this would explain why the piaa was poor, (higher current draw, more voltage drop, the efficency of any bulb drops off in a very steep curve for the first 1-2 ish volts below it`s design voltage, and inversley the life go`s up)

Nick
Quote,lamps of 100w halogens achieve their performance by high lumen (lms) output by drawing more current. This over heats your wiring, switches and the headlamp or reflector system. The life is also very short.

They will damage switches and make the worst of any poor connection in line , although I have never seen any physical light damage, as for their life-span, I don`t know of the published figures, but I ran 100/135`s for approx 7000 miles, I have my dip headlights on always, both dip`s failed within 1 day of each other (the one because of a small piece of countryside :-) the other ????) I now run 135/180`s, they have done about 4000m now, They are good enough that I haven`t bothered to replace / refit the Piaa spots that also didn`t like the countryside too much ,
They aint the 4 super oscars + 2 cibie headlights I used to run but I would say they are the best "standard" headlight I have used, do the wiring and stick them in a good quality headlight,Cibie,valeo, bosch, etc and they would be superb,
Have a good one
Tim

Tim-H

[QUOTE=Tim-H],
They aint the 4 super oscars + 2 cibie headlights I used to run

I forgot to mention, also use a 110 amp alternator, add a few resistors to the voltage regulator,+ 8 relays,100amp fuse links, 6 mm cable to give you 14.6 v @ the bulb, carry spare bulbs, and change them all after 1 night event anyway, but they were bright :-)

Autolamps

Glenn,

I do not know your background either but it may help if I give a few facts on my past and then you can make your own mind up what I do and don’t know.

I worked for Valeo for 7 years in the International competition department and was responsible for doing the first halogen headlamp conversions on Japanese motorcycles. I worked on the world rally circuit along with then world endurance championship including 5 years at Le Mans. Philips automotive lighting followed and firstly heading up the UK and Italy and then to Asia. I set up the automotive sales offices in the 13 countries we called the APR and of course was heavily involved with the Asian OE and after markets. I then returned back to Europe and headed the 19 countries from Russia across to Portugal and Finland down to Turkey.

I have been involved in the discharge technology development since 1984 and have seen more lamp factories than I could care to remember. These amongst others involved working on the management committees for 3 joint ventures during the above in China, Korea and Poland.

A lot of contacts, alot of countries, alot of product and a significant amount of knowledge.

Hope this help?

Nick

REVOLUTION

iTrader: (7)

Hi Nick

[Quote - your comments about PIAA bulbs not being good enough for the OE market are untrue and "maybe"highlight a lack of knowledge on this subject of which you have an opinion on.]

Obviously from your reply you have bags of experience to draw from (and I did say "maybe" afterall !!!), however I still feel your words on PIAA were a bit harsh and surely their success is down to reputation and quality not just marketing hype.

I think the press release just arrived this week answers the OE quality question to anyone who's unsure.

**PIAA Selected to Provide Original Equipment for New Mitsubishi Evolution IX**

This month (September) sees Mitsubishi launch the latest version of its high performance, rally-bred saloon, the Lancer Evolution IX and PIAA UK are delighted to announce that each car is to be fitted with PIAA Platinum White bulbs and Super Silicone Wipers as standard.

The relationship between PIAA and Mitsubishi began in the 1980’s when the Japanese manufacturer began its motorsport campaigns, when PIAA lights were first fitted to its rally cars.

Since then PIAA and Mitsubishi have enjoyed unrivalled success, with Tommi Makinen taking four consecutive WRC titles between 1996 and 1999 using PIAA lights and Mitsubishi winning the demanding Dakar Rally no less than 10 times - again, using PIAA equipment.

The decision by Mitsubishi to include PIAA bulbs and wipers as part of the Evolution IX’s impressive specification follows the appearance of these components on the much acclaimed Evolution VIII FQ400, Mitsubishi’s monstrous 400bhp version of the Lancer, which was sold in limited numbers earlier this year.

Chris Hutchings, Managing Director for Weston-Super-Mare based PIAA UK, is delighted Mitsubishi has selected his company’s products for the new Lancer:

“Mitsubishi choosing to fit PIAA bulbs and wipers to its Evolution IX range marks a real milestone for us, as this is the first time these products have been specified as original equipment – and the first time in Europe Super Silicone Wipers have been fitted as standard. Taking into account the impressive performance of the cars, this move by Mitsubishi is an endorsement to the quality and performance of our bulbs and wipers.”

The Evolution IX features PIAA Platinum white bulbs for it’s main beam and side lights, the intense white emissions complimenting that of the car’s existing powerful HID dipped-headlamp system.

PIAA’s Super Silicone wipers are fitted to both the front and rear windscreens, with the front wipers proudly displaying a Ralliart logo (Mitsubishi’s motorsport and tuning brand) and fitted with spoilers to ensure the blades stay in contact with the screen - whatever the speed.

Paul Brigden, General Manager for Ralliart, explained why PIAA equipment has been specified for the Evolution IX:

“We wanted to fit headlamp bulbs and wipers to match the Evolution’s high performance. Evo drivers expect their cars to out-perform others in the class - in all areas. Therefore if we can provide our customers with the best possible visibility at night and in bad weather conditions, then it’s another factor which enhances the appeal of the Evolution.”

PIAA manufacture a range of Platinum White bulbs and Super Silicone wipers to suit most cars. Existing Evo owners can upgrade their cars with PIAA bulbs and wipers, available from Mitsubishi dealers.

This must class as OE supply - at a premium no doubt, but after all the debate I think we all agree that it's down to personal choice and cost at the end of the day.

Glenn
Revolution
www.revolution.eu.com

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Tim-H: The results of our testing were reported here at the time but there was no published report as such.
I think perhaps you do not understand or I did not explain clearly.
The first thing that was done was to up-rate the lighting circuit to accomodate the "not for road use" rally bulbs 130 or 150W.
Then the tests were done so each bulb could draw whatever current it wanted without any undue resistance/heat in the wiring.
The best bulbs were the "GE +60%" followed by the Osram and Phillips + 50% which were 60/55 rated. This was a surprise and to a certain extent a disappointment in view of up to150w ratings for "rally" bulbs and the mega price of two of the three PIAA.
The + 60 and + 50 bulbs performed similarly in other applications without up-rated wiring and with no detectable wiring heat issues.
So the conclusion was that it had been unnecessary to uprate the wiring in the first place to get the best results (but it had been necessary to explore the full potential of all the bulbs in a fair manner)

Autolamps

The latest mega bulb test has just been done and published by an independent body after extensive laboratory testing in this weeks auto express. Guess it says it all really and should close this debate.

Nick
www.autolamps-online.com

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Got a link to it Nick?

Alcazar

harvey

iTrader: (48)

The Auto Express tests were on H1 and H7. My tests were on H4.
Some of the bulbs we tested have been superceded so the replacements may have been improved.
I would love to see a similar independant test on H4 bulbs.

Autolamps

Here is the link.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product_test/

Take a look at the pricing and then refer back to my comments earlier in this thread

Nick
www.autolamps-online.com