Scooby Doc

Right Guys

I have 10 days, starting this Friday, sans femme. Ample time I am sure you will agree for a little project....

Want a new amp to run my front components... Focal 165K. Its time to cascade the Denon DCA 800 onto newer pastures

Have been watching e bay looking at a Soundstream Rubicon 502 or a Picasso (Class A 4x25W)..

Other suggestions are however most welcome!

Needs to satisfy the following however:
1. Sufficiently inexpensive that it can be put on a credit card without wife noticing difference in the balance at the end of month

2. Needs to arrive and be fitted whilst she is away

3. Need a buyer for the DCA 800 to destroy all evidence of the upgrade.

john banks

I would have loved to have bought your Denon amp, but sadly, Lightning Audio stuff went in - I think the wife would be distressed by a six channel amp in her nice V6 repmobile's boot, but there would still be plenty of space for her inside [the boot] even with a sub Sounds a bit Eminemish?

Would 4x25 be a bit weedy? Class A clarity might be nice for the tweeters though?? Go on, you know you want to run it active...

chiark

The Picassos are nice amps but, if I recall correctly, are designed to be running loooooow impedences such as massive sub arrays. Still, you'd be fine running your fronts off it bridged as I believe the THD doesn't jump massively for bridging that amp. Will check the specs.

Damn cunning plan though. And the DCA800 is a brilliant multi-purpose amp that's a bargain.

Nick.

Scooby Doc

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by chiark:
<B>The Picassos are nice amps but, if I recall correctly, are designed to be running loooooow impedences such as massive sub arrays. Still, you'd be fine running your fronts off it bridged as I believe the THD doesn't jump massively for bridging that amp. Will check the specs.

Damn cunning plan though. And the DCA800 is a brilliant multi-purpose amp that's a bargain.

Nick.[/quote]

Scooby Doc

Nick

I am not sure about the picasso. I know that ss frequently play the under rated card when the quote there power outputs but 4x25 does seem a little weedy and obviously runing a 4 ohm set of components I am not going to get any more power out of the amp. The ss literature does seem to aim the picasso at components but I think you might be right Nick as the guys on e bay with them seem to be running several sets of components.

I would also need a crossover which ups the cost...

So, thinking out loud, 2 channel vs 4 channel. Dr Banks wants me to go active which might be entertaining. 4 channel would be more flexible...

I'm still looking at e bay - secondhand from the states has worked so far for me .

Oh Nick, John seems to have beaten you to a reply again

Thanks for your help

Martin

chiark

"Do you really want to go active?" is the other question to ask.

I tried it, but reverted to passive due to paranoia about tweeter protection (or lack thereof). I've got the amplification channels, so may give it a bash again...

I'm running a SoundStream reference 604 for the fronts, and only using 2 channels. That's rated at 2x75 and is adequate for the CD technologies drivers. Hmm... Active.

Damn, you've just lost me a weekend

How much is the picasso? Just having searched on ebay I can't see one. But there is a Da Vinci Just buy that

Scooby Doc

Nick

Good question

The Picasso was the later Rubicon model which has the later power supply and apparently is less likely to go up in flames.

PeteT

Martin,
can't help at all, but just wanted to say I like your style!!

Scooby Doc

rockin'Ru

Martin,US Amps is also a great choice if you can get them.Very clean and under rated quite a bit.A good choice IMO if you can get one cheaper than the SS.
The active setup gives you more tuning options.IMO,I'd go for the simplicity of a 4 channel amp.If you have a good ear(sounds like you do )you'll have no problems with setting the gains right.The xover should have a level control for this also.
I don't understand what you mean by "...I wouldn't be able to adjust the gains between the front and rear channels...".Can you break it down a little more for me?

chiark

Definitely go for a 4 channel matched otherwise you'll have fun trying to match levels.

Gain setting is, ah, fun. Guaranteed it will take you quite a while no matter how good your ear is, as you'll tweak the midrange higher to start with then hear more things than you should and realise that your mids are too high, so put the tweeters up a bit, ...

So point 1 is "no, you want 1 4 channel"

Point 2 - dunno, but hell, if you find a way I suggest you start selling the secret. Plus I'd be bidding against you for the Da Vinci. ;D

Nick.

john banks

Get a cheapskate's credit card like my Egg one - wife has no idea what I buy as the statement notification arrives in email and the statements are accessed over secure server. However, if you pay it in full every month she may notice if she looks at the bank statement. But for marital harmony may be best to tell her

Scooby Doc

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by john banks:
<B>Get a cheapskate's credit card like my Egg one - wife has no idea what I buy as the statement notification arrives in email and the statements are accessed over secure server. However, if you pay it in full every month she may notice if she looks at the bank statement. But for marital harmony may be best to tell her [/quote]

Scooby Doc

Guys

Its the inner turmoil that causes me sleepless nights.....not

I never realised you were all so devious. Especially you John

Oh and Nick - what do you reckon the reserve is on that Da Vinci - that would do the job perfectly wouldn't it.

Rockin ru - I have absolutley no idea what I was talking about - but that is just normal


Off to do some homework

Martin

Scooby Doc

Thinking out loud now Help!

So if I went for a 4 channel with say 4x75w as per your ss604 Nick, surely I wouldn't want to put 2x75w through my tweeters.

The 604 has an on board HP/LP crossover so I would need an external crossover preferably fully adjustable with a BP crossover. I presume from this crossover you would be able to vary the power to midranges and tweeters using some sort of fader facility

Am I right?

So any suggestions for crossovers - I can only find info about PG ones and they are pricey.

Oh and the guy I just e mailed in the states to say I was interested in his 2 channel rubicon 502 better not be reading this - mind you he won't be up yet

Martin

Scooby Doc

Just an update

1. she's off
2. the guy on ebay is objecting to using the i-escrow intermediary which releases funds on inspection of the equipment. Looks like I am heading for bad feedback as I will have to tell him to shove it. that really spoils the chance of getting and fitting in the next 10 days
3. there is anothe man who has a pg 475ti - 4x75w

Whats a reasonable asking price for the Denon - Nick?

Martin

chiark

Sorry for not getting back sooner.

For active crossover, the Audiocontrol stuff is fairly silent - I used the 4XS - and the Kenwood KEC600 gets good writeups too.

I'd use the same amp for tweeters and mid-range as you'll be getting the same sonic characteristics. Also, if you try to put more power through the woofer, you'll create an unbalanced sound - to much midrange and not enough tweeter...

Suggest you work out how to avoid negative feedback as I wouldnt' deal with someone in the states with -ve feedback...

475ti is an excellent amp.

Suggest 100 quid for the Denon amp and someone will rip your arm off?

Scooby Doc

Nick

thanks for your reply

we have talked about using e bay in the past - usually with enthusiasm! I think you bought your 604 from craga is that right?

I think your right about the feedback issue. I bought my rubicon 702 from a guy with only a few feedbacks (?) but all were positive and I got the amp cheap $200 plus shipping %75

For other peoples information the safest way to pay is using an escrow service (www.tradeneable.com) which acts as an independent intermediary, releasing funds on recepit of goods plus an agreed inspection period. If you are unhappy with the goods you send them back and pay postage (again)

There are several other means of paying which are favoured by my seller which allow the seller to receive funds before shipping. These are

chiark

As you say, you're insured up to $200.

If you use a credit card, you're not liable at all unless they've got your signature so if something goes wrong, you're covered.

Make sure you use a friendly credit card though, preferably a gold card for the better service.

I am not saying dispute the transaction whatever, but if you get a problem, you should get your money back.

Maybe just go for it?

Scooby Doc

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by chiark:
<B>As you say, you're insured up to $200.

If you use a credit card, you're not liable at all unless they've got your signature so if something goes wrong, you're covered.

Make sure you use a friendly credit card though, preferably a gold card for the better service.

I am not saying dispute the transaction whatever, but if you get a problem, you should get your money back.

Maybe just go for it?[/quote]

eek where did that come from - fat fingers Know what they say Right John?



[This message has been edited by Scooby Doc (edited 20 July 2001).]

Scooby Doc

It take it you are very busy at work Nick - first post in by 0800hrs etc..

Do you really think that the credit card company would cover me through an intermediary like bidpay? I can only ask.

The worst possible scenario is that the wife will come back and she won't be able to find any evidence of an upgrade - until the credit card comes in!

chiark

Yes, they are responsible for the transaction. Being a credit card, you have much more protection than any other form of payment.

I'd check with the card issuer first as I'm frequently and often wrong...

And yes, work is busy - believe it or not - but I use scoobynet as light relief. Some people take cig breaks, I take scoobynet breaks.

Scooby Doc

I have just noticed something which would interest John Banks

The PG 475ti has a bp crossover through the rear channel so would be just the ticket for going active

What do you think John?

rockin'Ru

That's what I've been tyring to tell him.No highs,no lows,only mid fqz's and either hu power or a small amp.It's a true and incredible effect.
By the way,you're not the only one evading detection.I am,at the moment,subless.Waiting for my Tempest to arrive.Thankfully she's at work during shipping hours.
Will give a full report when functional.

john banks

Subless Ru -you must be losing it mate

What are the cut offs for the BP filter - guessing that about 60-5Khz would be wide enough to be narrowed to your specs?

Was it foaming or MDF spacers you were thinking of when we next meet - I have a nice little delicate variable speed jigsaw with some nice fine blades, and am always partial to a bit of foaming {OF THE DOORS}. I'm saying no more unless this thread gets muppetised

Scooby Doc

Hey John

Good to hear from you

You can download the spec sheet for the 475ti on

john banks

The crossover looks as though it only goes up to 800Hz which obviously would be inadeqately low for a front driver bandpass. Seems like an external crossover would still be required.

Scooby Doc

John, I think there is a switch that you can throw which alters the crossover range by a factor of 10.

I know I should really pay more attention but when it comes down to the high science and the nitty gritty of the fine print of the spec sheet... John.... I can rely on you

So err does that make it better?

Martin

john banks

The pdf was downloading real slow and I wanted to go and play on some twisty roads so I didn't see that bit x10 sounds like it might do the trick, but 40 was the min - therefore 400Hz - too high for bottom end of bandpass. Must read the manual if you are seriously considering it.

rockin'Ru

Martin,that onboard xover won't work with the comps you have.You're looking for around a 3500hz or higher xover point.
I couldn't get the white paper to download at all,so I'm guessing the 10 switch is a bassboost cicuit.Not positive though.
Like John said,if you can,go active.If not,you'll still notice a diff with the PG amp over the Denon.