GW2000

Just after some quick thoughts on the Infinity 605cs before I go and buy a pair for the front doors. Just wondering if there are any others out there of similar money that give a better sound??

Heard so much about them on here, but wondering if they are old now??

Thanks in advance


Ian

john banks

Nothing new come out at the price to beat them that I have heard of or heard in anyones car, but I am too busy making my car into a torque monster to be much into ICE at present.

ScoobyJawa

Ian,

Just buy the speakers - you know you want to

Imagine mine - but amped up loverly

GW2000

John - Keep reading your threads about the mods. I think I need to go back to school.

Neil - I just wanted some opinions off someone else who's not trying to bankrupt me

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

The 605's give a nice mid/high sound but i think you need something to give you that low down bass. So if you've already got a sub you will be fine.

ScoobyJawa

You love it really Ian

next up 18's, the Link, Downpipe, Full Leather lol

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

The 605's are great, not very good when not amped up tho IMHO

john banks

Depends on what you feed them with. Still the best thing I've heard under £200.

GW2000

I've got a Kenwood 4*40W headunit at the moment, but depending on how things go I may move onto an AMP for them. I'll get on the blower tomorrow as I've been quoted £101 (on the net) from In-Car Express.

Thanks again.

Scoobyjawa - get your screwdriver out.

john banks

If you go for a Kenwood one the 605CS seem to be able to take 150WRMS/300W "Max" each of "Kenwood power" if you know what I mean. So you need a fairly hefty amp to get the most out of them or bridge a 4 channel and it is cheaper. I run a KAC848 4 channel wired for just the front 605CS. £160.

nuclear_pond

OK, so this is probably a stupid question, but why do they need an amp? My panasonic head unit gives out 4x40W Rms, and if I turn it up too loud theu start to pop. This is too loud to listen too, and hurts my ears!

So my question is, whats the point of an amp, as it wont stop them poping, as so I wont be able to go any louder?

I cant see the point. Does it improve the sound qualityu or something?

john banks

"4x40W Rms"

Sorry no. It will be 4x40 peak. They will be using a high supply voltage, driving one channel at 10% THD and will not take a sustained average, they will also test at the best frequency they can rather than a range with a -3dB cutoff.

Try 4x10W RMS if you are lucky at <1% THD 14.4V supply all channels driven. There is no comparison.

Like adding a turbocharger to your ICE.

You need to compare like with like, and headunit power figures are one of the biggest lies in history.

An American website took many examples of the best headunits and got at most 14W RMS out of really good one.

If you give a speaker 10 times as much headroom on an amp it will not go ten times louder - it will be double. Twice the power will give you 3dB.

So amps run at lower distortion levels and are more honest with their figures.

Your speakers are popping off the headunit because of the headunit reaching its limit not the speakers.

You are more likely to kill speakers by powering them with an underpowered distorted amp.

Hope this helps.

[Edited by john banks - 03/01/2002 19:19:55]

john banks

Another thought - 160WRMS at 14.4V means even if the headunit amp was 100% efficient (try half that) it would be requiring 11 amps just to drive that amplifier.

Bear in mind that my amp draws 38A and has better heatsinks, DC to DC converters, and a much better power supply and more space and draw your own conclusions, yet it makes 4x50WRMS.

In total my setup gets about 500WRMS which is not that much, but sounds a lot compared with up to 50WRMS total which you might get off a headunit.

[Edited by john banks - 03/01/2002 19:21:08]

nuclear_pond

Ah, I think I understand. So its a poor quality signal from my head unit that makes the speakers distort.

So is there any benefit in buying a better quality head unit? I really dont want to start messing about with an amp etc?

john banks

I don't think you would notice much improvement from changing the headunit if it is a decent one. 10-14WRMS is about 1dB and hardly noticeable. Quality improvement may be slight.

Go to the hassle of an amp and you will be rewarded.

I am assuming in all this that the speakers are correctly installed and not faulty. Presumably they only pop when headunit is over 3/4 volume?

rockin'Ru

We call that "clipping" the amp.And yes,it can kill the speakers over time,but hard to do with a xover in the way.

As John said,an external amp is well worth the trouble.If you went through the hassle of putting the speakers in the doors,an amp install is a piece of cake.And WELL worth it.
I'll bet the reason why it's so "loud" to you is because of distortion.Look at it this way,you know how big the xovers are for the Infinitys?Well the little amp inside the hu has to over come all the electrical resistance those xovers throw at it and the poor hu doesn't stand a chance.Like throwing a midget in the ring with Hulk Hogan,you'll get the run-around,but it's no match.

John,is your email the same?

john banks

jcsbanks@btinternet.com - the same.

GW2000

Job done...Jon at In-Car Express sorted things out very quickly. It's just going to take me months to fit them

ScoobyJawa

It will in this weather

ChrisB

I've noticed a big difference between the Suburu Philips head + changer and my Alpine head + changer I've swapped into it's place. I'll probably just do the front speakers and that'll be it.

audio g man

yo gw2000.
the infinity 605cs are damm good speakers for the money But have a listen to a pair of Alpine SPR-175A. 99quid on the net. 150 retail.
these are also fine speakers but slightly better in the lower end of the frequency range and would benifit from external amplification. general rule of thumb is 65% of total rms power (ignor max ratings) for sub-bass and 35% for full range. if your running or going to run a sub, ensure you fit a capacitor in the positive speaker wires of the 605cs ( if thats what you choose to use) between the amp wether it be internal or external and the speakers own passive x-over rated at 265 microfarads,150hz high-pass. available from any autoleads stockist. do this when you fit a sub. this will reduce distortion and prolong the life of your speakers. finally it's a good idea to install some sound deadening material stuck to the inside of each door skin. this will help reduce road noise.

audio g man

at the end of the day it's down to what sounds good to you.

john banks

absolutely m8. You think the Alpines sound better overall then?

Mungo

I'm happy with my 605cs's but I like the sound of making them even better with an amp. Thing is - where should I put it (I've got a 5-door)? I don't want to put it in the boot and I assume it'll get too hot under the front seats. Are there small amps available that can be fitted somewhere behind the head unit? Are these worth fitting?

john banks

You can get the smaller sized 2 or 4 channel amps under a seat - prob best option.

GW2000

Just received my speakers and they look good even in the box...shame they will be hiding behind covers. I would of liked an encyclopaedia to of come with them, so as I can understand John Banks and audio g-man...but hey I'm here to learn.

I also have a 5DR and would be pleased to hear any fitting suggestions for future AMPs.

Ian

audio g man

I second that john. No probs under the seats.

You'll have to decide if you want to stick them down with velcro or screw them down to the floorpan. The later can be a good invitation for rust in time.

john banks

How about mounting on something secured to non-mobile bits of the seat base without interfering with the pretensioners?

You'd need a lot of velcro to resist one g which the lovely Scooby can sometimes hit - esp the quicker ones at take off!

Mine is in the boot on a 4dr.

audio g man

Check out Alpine's "MRP-T130" or "MRV-T407
or Kenwood's "KAC-529S" or "KAC629S"
For these 2 channel amps and much more inc. very good prices and service, check out
www.mcs-direct.co.uk

john banks

150Hz with a 6dB/oct passive crossover with phase shift on 605CS would in my opinion not sound as good as a 12 or 18dB/oct active crossover with no phasing problems such as what you find in the vast majority of amps and some Pioneer headunits. It sounds best at about 60-90Hz with this slope in my experience depending on the matching with the sub. But if you have no active crossover then use a cap as suggested.

Note that the Alpines have a 200W peak 50WRMS rating compared with the Infinity 270W peak 90WRMS rated. The 54Hz cutoff for the Infinity means little compared with 35Hz cutoff - neither state how many dB down they are using their cutoffs - convention is -3dB but they don't say. Certainly running the Infinity speakers next to some Kenwoods at the same power with a claimed 35Hz (or thereabouts) cutoff, the Infinity speakers were at least as good despite looking lacking on paper. When you crank up the power they blew the Kenwoods (similar price) out the water. You need to see the curve and make sure it is at 1W at 1metre. Infinity quote sensitivity at 2.83V which at 4ohm is 2W so you need to knock 3dB off the Infinity sensitivity figures.

So although the Alpine appear as though they take less power, they may be a little more sensitive according to their claims, but you have to hear them to decide. Do you think they acutally sound better audio man?

[Edited by john banks - 1/5/2002 9:30:47 AM]