Jza

Just spent the afternoon doing the boot in my MY01 WRX with the Brown Bread sound dampening stuff.

Ive tried several but have to recommend this product. Its the best yet for molding to tricky body bits (bumpy wheel arches and floor). If your going to deaden awkward places its definately the one to go for! Heats up really quickly and molds to the surface real easy. Sounds (funny word i know) good too!

Easier to use than dynamat which i find a bit stiff and cracks if it gets cold when aplying!

James

Mick

iTrader: (1)

Hi - what sort of price is this stuff?

How much do you need to have a noticeable effect?

What benefits are there to using it?

Cheers

Mick

Jza

what sort of price is this stuff? Ł15 for a large roll - cheaper than the competitors ive used

How much do you need to have a noticeable effect? I did the boot with 1 roll (patched the main areas with squares of the stuff) but 2 would have been better - im gonna get some more and do the bits i missed. Its improved a lot! lots less road noise when sitting in the back - the rumble from the rear tyres has reduced - and i used just one roll. One small piece on a panel makes a difference.

What benefits are there to using it?
The idea is that the car "vibrates" via the tyres/suspension - this "resonance" is what you can hear on the roads - the rumble. Therefore if you cover the panels with this stuff it stops this resonance and hence makes the car quieter inside - a lot really!! You then dont need the powerfull amps to overcome the noise of the roads!

So you just cut out peices and stick it to the shell. I did the boot as a test as from experience its the easiest bit to do. Im impressed with the stuff. If you tap a "clear" panel its "tinee" If you put some on its then a dull thud. You dont want the "tinee" sound. Scoobys are really tinee!!!

I reckon you could make a huge difference to the in cabin noise level with say 2 for the boot, 4 for the main cabin and one each for the front doors. So for 8 * 15 (Ł120) you reduce the interior noise by say -3ish db and thats about Ł2000 worth of amps you dont need !!!!!

Have a go in the boot - just remove the carpet and have a go - its easy!

JonW

where did you get the Brown Bread?

FWIW Ive started to dampen the noise of my Scoob too and so far have added a boot mat made of sound deadening carpet underlay (!) made of crumb rubber, its quite heavy so it stays nicely in place but I also cut it to the shape of the bootmat. After a quick test with a borrowed sound meter it looks to be dropping the interior noise by about half a db but its hard to tell.

My current plans are to Dynamat Extreme the front doors (arrived as I typed that... spooky) and also use something else to do the rear wheelarches (two layers of Brown Bread, perhaps?) along with extra underseal wheelside. I will measure the sound levels in the car at most stages and will do some sort of write up and put it back on here as a new topic. Fingers crossed this should all be complete in the next few weeks.

FYI my orignal plan with this was clearer sound from my mobile phone carkit as well as improved sound quality from my ICE, in normal long distance driving I dont find the cabin noise that bad.

Jon.

chiark

Easiest place to find it is in Maplins.

JonW

Thanks Nick, did you see my comments in my 'Infinity Componants' thread?

Ichecked it out... we have:
- Brown bread is 14.99 + 2.50 p&p (if <Ł30 spend) from Maplins for a 4.7 sq ft sheet.
- Dynamat Extreme (top of the range?) is 19.99 (no p&p) from CarAudioDriect for a 4ft sq sheet.

So 45 quid buys you 3 lots of Brown Bread and two and a small bit of Dynamat Extreme...

Anyone tried both and want to comment on whats best?

Jon.

chiark

Hi Jon

Yep, saw the comments - cheers. Life is hectic as I've just moved house and work is going ballistic, but I'm still hanging in there.

I've used dynamat, dynamat "Super" and Scosche Accumat. Super is probably the best, though Accumat gives good results and is a lot less weighty so I don't quite know if it's doing the same business. However, it's a lot easier to work with.

Brown Bread or RoadKill (also from Maplins) is unknown to me, I'm afraid...

Speak soon,

Nick.

NAF

I got some brown bread from maplins last week too
Highly impressed with it
Very easy to apply and does a great job
I'd recommend it

Niall

Jza

I think the point id like to make about which is best comes down to this - i dont have any facts on the sonic benefits of either, jsut that brown bread is really easy to cover difficult shaped bits of the car.

It melts easily and doesnt crack when you mold it to the car. With dynamat i had to keep a hair dryer blowing hot air on it to stop it cracking as i molded it to weird shapes. The brown bread is loads softer (like tar when hot) so its a lot easier to mold and it doesnt split.

For large flat areas this "moldability" isnt so important.

I think the choice of material comes down to how far you want to go with it. I'm just going to use patches across the car - on as many panels as possible. Cheap(ish - about Ł120) but with noticable sound reduction. If you want to go the whole hog ive seen some cars with the WHOLE interior covered - including the roof!! But then you cant hear your SS back box!!

Youd be surprised how much a small square of the stuff makes to a large panel!

Doors and floorpan next! Wish me luck.

One safety point - the tar stuffs really nasty - dont rub your face with your hands before washing - i got a rash!!

Chiark - have you done the whole car, or just selected panels?

Jza

chiark

Jza, I've not really done that much - just doors and boot lid. I don't want to add too much weight

JonW

Agree with Nick (Glad to hear you're busy mate! hee hee) here, you dont want too much weight or you may as well have bought a BMW and put up with less performance for the quieter interior.

My intention is to do the bootlid (Nick did you just do the bit I can see in the pix or did you do the bit behind the SUBARU letters too?), doors and rear wheel arches (reversing off my driveay sounds like im on a rally stage... except in reality the 'stones' are grit sized!!). Should make a difference I hope...

Ive looked at the newly arrived Dynamat Extreme and it like sticky tarry bluetack on an alloy sheet and certainly wont crack or require any heat to be moulded where you want it.

Jon.

chiark

Jon,

I did feed a bit into that space too, yes. Currently up to my ears with work and moving house... Car audio is being neglected at the moment

Nick.

JonW

Yep thought you would have done, its amazing when you cast a critcal eye over the car you start to spot potential places for vibration / noise deadening. That space would be covered by a panel with a scallop for you to pull the lid down in any other vehicle other than the Nippa Perodua these days...

Dont worry, once you move into the new house you'll be decorating next... {evil grin}. ICE wassat?!?!

Jon.

Bagpuss

I'm also thinking about Dynamatting (or Brown Breading) the doors on my Evo 6. My problem is that the insides of the doors are covered in some kind of wax, presumably designed for protecting against rust.

As I've not actually seen Dynamat or Brown bread, how does is actually stick to the surfaces?

If it's just a kind of self-adhesive, will it stick to this wax okay, or will I have to remove the wax, as my local ICE dealer reckons?

Andy.

chiark

Remove the wax with something like meths otherwise it really won't stick.

All this stuff is very dependent upon getting the installation right, otherwise you'll come back and find the car slightly smelling of meths with a lump of bitumen on your boot floor

Do heat it slightly before use, do clean the panels with the appropriate cleaner, and do press it down firmly. I use a heat gun gently to warm the stuff prior to installation (don't go near the paint), then press into place with a wallpaper roller.

Don't take short cuts - if the stuff falls off, you've wasted your money and will have hassle to get back to re-installing it - particularly in the doors!

Regarding DIY - decorated two rooms last weekend!!!

Jza

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>
Minimum is the front doors and bootlid. Boot floor and front footwells/rear doors are probably optional.

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to disagree, but id reverse what you said. The most noticable difference is the floor pan and front wheel arches / bulhead. Most of the noise comes from there IMHO. The doors are a must if you are adding speakers otherwise they just vibrate the door panels to death!! Bootlid makes little difference - you can hear the noise from the lid??? I certainly cant!!! If your putting a sub in the boot then it will stop vibrations i guess.

I'd go for:

1a) Front Wheel arches
1b) Bulk Head
1c) Floor Pan Front
- grouped as you should do them in one go as its a pain to get at!!
2) Floor Pan Rear incl transmission tunnel
3) Rear arches and Boot floor
4) Front Doors - but more important if your adding speakers!!
5) Rear Doors
4) Boot lid

Id say that a few rolls of material hardly constitutes a huge weight gain!! Adding loads more amps to increase the volume above the road noise without noise reduction is surely a lot heavier!!!

Sound dampening is a weight and cost SAVING exercise!!

Jza

JonW

Interesting you would use that order....

IMHO the most noise comes from the badly sealed / trimmed areas of the car and the biggest noise seesm to eminate from the rear wheelarches, but as yet ive not proved this. I agree you will hear the noise closest to you so dampening the floorplan and bulkhead will be noticable but these already have a wodge of sound deadening over them wheras the rear arches dont.

In an inconclusive test adding a thick bootmat has dropped my interior noise by about half a db with no other sound deadening done and im sure sitting in the back is more friendly now (not that I ever intend to sit back there with the car in motion!)

Jon.

kryten

Never used brown bread - seen 'cheapo' stuff before that fell off after a few weeks - never had that problem with Dynamat. Then again, probably a lot due to the way its applied, not a job that can be rushed.

Minimum is the front doors and bootlid. Boot floor and front footwells/rear doors are probably optional.

The spare wheel well is also a good place to add some - nasty noises seemed to be coming from there...

Now if only I could figure out a way to fill the Prodrive spoiler with the stuff

JonW

Sorry for crosspost from another thread but this really belongs in this thread:

Just been inside my drivers door to look at speaker fitting etc and I came a cross a square (6x5 inches) of something aproaching Dynamat Extreme (ie. alloy backed and gooey black stuff stuck to panel) in the drivers door...

Jon.

JonW

Just done my drivers door with Dynamat Extreme, top product, dead easy to install and needs no heat etc. Door shuts with a thunk now not a ting...

Happy, moi?! Jon.

kryten

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jza:
<B> Sorry to disagree, but id reverse what you said. The most noticable difference is the floor pan and front wheel arches / bulhead. Most of the noise comes from there IMHO. The doors are a must if you are adding speakers otherwise they just vibrate the door panels to death!! Bootlid makes little difference - you can hear the noise from the lid??? I certainly cant!!! If your putting a sub in the boot then it will stop vibrations i guess.
[/quote]

Feel free to disagree (though of course, I know I'm right )

I'd assumed that most people serious enough about their ICE to put in sound deadening would also be adding a sub of some sort.

The bootlid is horribly metalic and resonates something cronic.

There are two reasons to add the sound deadening material:

1) Reduce resonance of the panels so that the sound produced by your speakers is all you hear and not the vibrations and distortions of the the panels as well.

2) Reduce outside noise coming into the car to lower the noise floor eg road/tyre noise, the sound from that exhaust you bought for the way it sounds...!!

Hence the front doors being very important as this is where your main sounds are coming from - any unwanted noises here _will_ be audible.

The bootlid also makes nasty noises when the sub gets going (mine did anyway).

Both of these have a large effect on (1).

Floor pan and wheelarches really only reduce the noise coming into the car (2).

If you're fussy then you really need to do the bloody lot (I did!) but there are those on a budget who cannot manage total coverage.

Jza

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by kryten:
<B> Feel free to disagree (though of course, I know I'm right )
[/quote]

Ok mate - i disagree!!!!

I am installing the deadening material before the ICE, and then when the carpets ar up put in the cables etc.

Most road rumble comes from the front wheel arches / floor pan. If you drive on the motorway a lot you'll hear it above everything else. Thats the noise im after first. HUGE difference in noise reduction compared to a fair reduction from the doors. The doors are not IMHO the cause of the most noise. Sure - getting them done is important - particularly if your adding decent speakers.

I checked - ive got a "DIY Ice" manual thingy, and they recommend pretty much the same as i do!!!

As you say, a lot of this is down to cost and time - the doors ar easier to do than the floorpan - so i guess some is better than none.

Assuming youve stripped down the car id do all of the bits!!

Jza

JonW

FWIW Ive been directed to this site:

Adam M

The whole of my previous car was dyanmatted with dynamat super (renamed extreme?). This included 2 in each front door, one in each rear door, two in the boot, one one the boot lid, one in each wheel arch, two on the bulkhead, and then one in each footwell.

It was quiet, and also took bloody ages.

Once again, when filling out the 22B, I wanted none of this non purist stuff in my car, all extra weight and all that. I preferred the car as a raw road racer.

but with regard to importance, I am with jza.

I did mine for the purposes of the stereo sound rather than eliminating road noise.
With this in mind, I think it is doors first, followed by wheel arches and bulk heads, then floor pans.

If sub is going in then boot lid should be somewhere quite high up there.

Incidentally, I have used brown bread and thought it wasn't too hot.

Much better when heated significantly and yes more mouldable than dynamat but I believe that was at teh expense of its deadening capabities. this was displayed to me with 3 symbol. One was comlpetely undeadened and crashed loudly, one was covered in a circular piece of brown bread, and one had four radial strips of dynamat.

CCCRRRAAASSSHHHHH, CHING, thud! is the best way to some it up in that order.

Hope this helps.

Jza

Cheers Adam,

I was trying to recommend the brown bread for the easy installation over hard to cover areas. But im glad you've seen a comparison. Looks like dynamat for the rest then!!!

Jza

KF

Something that has confused me, and on a quick scan, I can't find the answer:
When fitting dynamat in the front doors, where do you stick it?

The look that I had with the door card off revealed the following layers:
Door card , thin transparent plastic material (waterproofing?), inner door skin and outer door skin.

To which surface do you stick the dynamat?
Sorry if this is a really stupid question...
KF.

chiark

You stick it to the actual door itself - the bit that is "outermost" on the car (but from the inside, naturally).

Hope this makes sense!

KF

Chiark,
Cheers. Isn't that extremely difficult? How do you get it past the inner door? Do you have to take the door itself apart, or just post the material through the gaps?
TIA,
KF.

JonW

How about this: (taken from my soon to be posted info on dynamatting and edited from previous posts on this forum)

Peel back the inner splash guard (clear plastic liner) from the lower half of the door being careful not to damage the mastic sealant. use a piece of tape to stick it up out of the way.

Clean up the door panels where the sound proofing will go first with white spirits or meths and finish off with pre prep spray or contact cleaner from Halfords.

Start with the inner skin and take your time, rushing will cause you to mess it up and also to cut yourself on the door skin edges or the edges of the proofing if its ally backed…

For the outer door skin, cut about a 9-10 inch strip along the short side of the $ft Sq dynamat rectangle. This will give you the right amount to go from the bottom of the skin up to the middle (where the side-impact bar is on the inside, level with the groove on the outside). For anyone of normal anatomy the top half of the skin is out of bounds IMHO.

To install this, start at front or rear - fold the piece you have in half, fold at top, backing paper out. Peel off the backing from the side facing you, as far as the fold, and let it hang down the back. Now put the piece into the door through the large hole, then make sure the bottom (non-sticky) edge is snugly at the bottom and corner of the door. Now fold up the folded bit, press down part od the top edge to make it stick, and you can stick it all down peeling the backing off as you go. Press it all down as before and repeat for the other (front or rear) half of the door.

For the inner skin, clean up the metal work and then cut about an 8 or 10 inch wide piece (along the short side) of the dynamat to cover the bottom third of the inner skin. Make a U-shape hole (open side at bottom) where the speaker will go. To do this place the dynamat (with backing still attached) over the panel where it will fit and draw an approximate speaker hole on it with a pencil from inside the door (hand / arm through the long hole), then removed the dynamat and cut the hole out. Save this piece. Then just peel part of the backing off and progressively stick it down. Then rub it into the nooks and crannies with something round (I used the end of a screwdriver handle - the ideal tool would be one of those little hard rollers used for making lino prints. Don't worry about chopping off the bit that covers part of the "hole" as I'm sure this baffles it all nicely. Use any oddments on the flanges around the large hole in the skin.


Now take the piece you cut out for the speaker and stick it over the other layer, behind where the speaker will be.

You need to be a bit savvy as there's nothing Dynamat likes more than sticking to itself, but this "foldback" technique does the trick.

Careful resealing of the plastci sheet or lots of duck tape gets the plastic sheet back down and the wires secured and flap-free.

Jon.

KF

Things become clearer. Sounds like the sort of thing that would have me swearing and running into the house every couple of minutes for elastoplast.
Perhaps I will pay someone to dynamat and reroute the speaker cables (don't fancy doing battle with the grommets either).
Cheers
KF.