TomCat

Just taken delivery (from Singapore!) of some top-quality, brand new, Danish component speakers I found on ebay. Seller has more I think.

The seller was a delight to deal with, really concerned and most apologetic for a slight delay in emailing me the tracking number so I could see how far the parcel had got. (Parcelforce in the UK were slow, but thats hardly news)

These speakers often get mentioned in "Whats the best front speakers in a scoob" type threads. The drivers are basically the same as their high-end home hifi stuff but made a bit more rugged for car use. They can take masses of power, absolute minimum they need is 75W RMS per channel but more is better.

Being the GT model they shouldn't be too hard to fit - 52mm mounting depth, although they are such good quality I will probably spend some of the money I've saved buying on ebay to have them professionally fitted.

Any recomendations of good people to do this in Bristol?

A few disclaimers:
Mods - I've no connection with the seller crazy_sound33, just a satisfied customer. Obviously customs etc is the buyers reponsibility and is a bit of a lottery.

chiark

Excellent stuff - glad to hear that you're happy, as dynaudio is not easy to find cheap!

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

So how much did you get these top notch speakers for then? - did you have to pay any import duty/Vat?

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Well, he did! They should finish off my new JDM STI nicely

Any recommendations for 5.25" full-range drivers to fit the rear shelf that would complement them?

TomCat

Fangoria - around £265 delivered inc tax
Not exactly cheap, but it is for what you're getting.
UK List is £399, plus delivery, and as chiark says no-one discounts them.

AndyC - personally I wouldn't add any more mids/tweets as that would mess up the soundstage. The imaging of Dyn's is one of their strong points and more drivers would throw this. Just a boxed sub in the boot to finish off I think.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Oops... just been out and bought a pair of JL Audio coaxials. Never mind, eh?

I used to keep a big sub in the boot when I was younger (sheesh... I'm only 29 now!) - but haven't really missed it, especially since I now have a home system with decent bass.

In any case, I auditioned a couple of pairs of Dynaudio hi-fi speakers a few years ago and was amazed at the bass they managed to extract from small cabinets. I nearly bought a pair of bookshelf speakers whose bass was every bit as deep and well controlled as the floorstanding Monitor Audios I ended up with.

BTW where do you guys go to hear car speakers before you buy? My home town (Farnborough, Hants) is completely devoid of specialist retailers and I ended up trekking all the way to The Sound Gallery In-Car in High Wycombe.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

He seems to have yet another pair now

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=5708005928

mark*b

Hey TomCat I'm very tempted on these. Did you manage to listen to a pair of Dynaudios before you bought yours? If so who sells them?

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

£265.............. Steve starts to cry.......................

Now if I hadnt spent several grand already and didnt already have these in MY sti then I'd get them

All I can say is taht these are one of the best speaker set ups I have heard in a Scoob (or Porsche for that matter!) - only issue is that they do take a fair bit of amping... I've got a bridged 4 channel Genesis supplying circa 170wrms (real rms!) to each speaker............

Tweeters are also nice.........

These sort of speakers trounce crap like Focal..... even top of the range Focal........ I would advise anyone to just get them - you wont be disappointed

I see that one of the chaps went for Monitor audio floorstanders - home - good choice I have a very expensive set of Monitor audio speakers at home - nice deep bass - especially when the next door neighbours are making a bit of noise - turn the amp up and shake the house to bits!!...they soon shut up....

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Which ones do you have? I have the Studio 20SE - the What HiFi? reference speaker for several years - plus a Rel Storm III sub. Good job I live in a detached house...

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

A man with exact tastes!!!

These dont come cheap!! and they are totally awesome.............

My father has some Monitor ones from the States - he has the '60' series..... cost about twice the price of the 20se's!!

TomCat

Fangoria - a quick fitting query - where did you put the tweeters? Mounting depth is large due to the spade connectors sticking out the back. I don't really want to cut holes in the door cards

Mark - The list of official UK dealers someone posted me a while back was:

Aberdeen Checkpoint 01224 640682
Chiswick Drive Time 0208 995 7775
Cambridge Cambridge car audio 01223 368989
Glasgow M.f.2.k. 0141 420 1123
Leeds Leeds car audio 0113 232 8777
Manchester Auto audio 0161 861 8917
Norfolk N.I.C.E. 01603 666876
Surrey Sound-offs 0208 6450665
Surrey Wentworth car radio 01344 844050
Surrey 001 Mobile Security 01932 253001

Sound-offs get good recommendations, someone posted "do not use Leeds Car Audio" a while back.

The advantage of purchasing from the Uk is that you get a guarantee, dealer backup, and don't have the worry of whether they'll turn up, or be damaged. The seller I bought from was very good though, and from his feedback looks to have sorted out any buyer problems.

I didn't ever listen to the in-car version before buying, but I have a pair of Dyn floorstanders which use roughly the same drivers. OK, its an unreal comparison as they are in a large rigid ported box, Arcam CD & NAD amp, but I'm amazed by the purity of the sound, the imaging and ability to convey the emotion of music.
I listened to Focals and JL gear none of which impressed - different but not better than current Caliber stuff

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Hm... not exactly easy to get to listen to in advance, then (although Wentworth's aren't too far from me). Still, I figured it was worth a punt given the saving and the fact that I liked their domestic speakers. Speaker companies do seem to have a 'corporate sound' in my experience, it's rare that I like one product from the range but hate the rest.

How much expense and/or hassle is involved in fitting a separate amp? I was never planning a monster ICE system (head unit + 6 speakers is fine by me), but several people have recommended that the Dynaudios really need a better amp than the 45W/ch in my head unit. Where do you mount it and how much effort is it lifting carpets and removing trim to run the cables?

TomCat

I've fitted my amp under the passenger seat, using the instructions from chiark's faq. I didn't go for anything fancy - people seem to recommend Genesis but to me a tranny amp is a tranny amp.
I went for a Sony XM1502 for around £100 as its got a reasonable output and the right shape to go under the seat

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Tweeters

Hmm - sorry these really are quite big and I did need to cut into the door cards for these - I positioned them about 6 inches directly above the speaker itslelf.......

Doubt that you'd be able to put them were the original tweeters are - but I never tried that!!

Amps

Yup your right - there aint no way that these speakers can be run off a head unit

If your just after lets say some nice sounding speakers - then I probably would not recommend Dyns- these are really for the top end of the market...... they compliminet a good headunit (read decent alpine unit, or Nacka or something costing over £700........), good amps, loads of sound deading, subs, etc

If you really want something running off the head unit then maybe you just want something nice and simple like infinity's - personally I couldnt live without Subs........ even though I've nearly sold mine twice now!!..... as I like the feeling of nice deep bass......... which you cannot get from front speakers and 6*9's

You also need to get the 6.5inch speakers as the bass is better and you obviously need a collar for that otherwise the backs foul the window.......

Problem I had is that I heard a few installs and said that I wanted the same!! - budget of say £500 went to £5k within a minute

The Dynn's need to be driven by a reasonably powerful amp - you'll need at least a 2*200wrms - I say this as if its not Soundstream or Genesis then its probably fairly crap - i.e. 2*200 = 2*150 really

I needed approx 170wrms each side, realistically - maybe a little less - which I run off a 4 Channel bridged Genesis amp (they dont come cheap at £600)........ I also have a GenesisMonoblock to run 2 Diamond audio subs!!)

Re fitting the amp - its not that difficult - but if you dont know much about basics of fitting one then leave it to a decent car stereo place (although try and take it somewhere reputable - and I dont mean Sextons or some other Monkey outfit) - if you live in Leeds avoid Leeds Car Audio like the plague - they may be a Dynn Audio and Genesis Dealer but they are just a bunch of cowboys.........

I wouldnt fit an amp under the seat - could'nt risk someone kicking it......... in the boot is normal....... but bare in mind that the boot metal is very thin - I had a seat back board made and fit the amps (and Farad capacitors on these)..........

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Mine arrived today

Suppose for a moment that I didn't want the extra expense and hassle of buying and installing a separate amp. What exactly is going to go so disastrously wrong with running them off the head unit?

Are there any little amps that would fit in the second DIN slot below the head unit? That would seem to be the logical place to put one, what with all the cabling already installed there. The idea of pulling out the carpets and running power, speaker and signal wires the full length of the car to an amp in the boot doesn't really appeal

chiark

Andy,
Worst thing you can do to a speaker is send it a clipped signal. Classic way to give a speaker a clipped signal? Turn up a small amp too far in an effort to get more volume out of your system...

Forget in-dash amps. There's not enough space, and definitely not enough guaranteed heat dissipation.

Just box the speakers up and send 'em to me

TomCat

Glad yours arrived safely too!

I know Fangoria disagrees, but I fitted the amp under the passenger seat without too much hassle, and its a solid lump so has survived a year already. Basically remove the front seat following instructions on chiark's FAQ (the CD changer section), the door threshold kickstrips and the centre console (instructions on these somewhere here!) and its not hard to run all the cables.

Most difficult thing is getting the speaker cable into the doors - I cheated and taped it up next to the existing stuff (as Subaru had done with some extra wiring!)

I still haven't fitted the Dyn's yet - too much DIY in the house to have time to play. I think I'll put the huge crossovers under the dash & the tweeters down by the kick panels. Would be good to compare notes about where you fit yours

P1_BEN

Also ordered some of these so be interested how you guys get on with fitting and tweeter position etc. Fingers crossed they won't take long too long to get here.

Ben

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Mine took 10 days from placing the order to arriving on my desk - about 5 for the tracking number to start working (as the parcel leaves Singapore) and the same again for it to suddenly appear as 'out for delivery'.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

*sigh* OK then, it looks like I need a separate amp, at least for the fronts. I've had a browse and it seems that I can spend arbitrarily large amounts of money - not unlike the domestic hi-fi scene I suppose

So, now the plan is a 2 channel amp mounted in the boot, powering the front speakers, with the rears running off the head unit as originally planned. This is unless, of course, I can find a suitably powerful 4 channel amp that'll drive them all for reasonable money. 150W/chan does seem a bit excessive, though - my hi-fi amp has exactly this rating and can go frighteningly loud (without audible distortion), and my lounge is quite a bit bigger than any car interior!

So, can anyone please suggest a few models I should be looking at? How about the Genesis Profile Two (75W/ch), £199.99 from Car Audio Direct? Or the Alpine ALP-MRVT420 (110W/ch) for £229.99? Do I need to spend this much, or am I looking at throwing away money on something that's too cheap and which won't really do the job?

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

ps. looks like I might need a new head unit too. Don't want anything fancy, just a single slot CD player and RDS radio with a clear display and easy to use controls. It'd be nice if the display can be orange to match my new JDM scooby too. Any tips?

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Just go for an Alpine unit - as long as its got a couple of Pre-outs (which they all should have)

Dont know how cheap the MP3 compatible players are?

Not sure about the amps

Re headunit power - I doubt you'd even be able to hear the speakers running off a headunit - seriously at first I ran one channel of my amp for each side (about 85w per side and you could barely hear the things!!) so I went to 2 channels per side................... (plus you can destroy the speaker - I went through 2 sets of speakers until I got a large Farad capacitor as all the power of teh system was being used by the Subs and clipping the amp (means it causes the magnet on the speakers to go haywire and brake!! the speaker - thats my 'simple' understanding anyway!!)

Re Genesis/or amps if you want some advice I'd speak to someone like Cheltenham Car Audio 01242 222046 (you want Dave) who is a top bloke - if you have the spec of the speakers (db levels) etc he should be able to tell you what amp you can get away with?

If you have the 5.25's then these will need less amping - dont remember if you went for the 5.25 or 6.5's

Adam M

if interested look at avi speakers.

Am now running them, and have to say that even before connectiong the tweeters and crossovers they sound amazing. Very powerful and punchy yet also very smooth.

Am sad to say the gorgeous passives and tweeters don't fit in the classic door.

I am sure I could get the passives in somewhere but am struggling to find where the existing ones are fitted. The car came with JL audio compnents on which the mids have rusted and seized. So I replaced them with these and am wasting the rest of the kit.

Am going to try to buy the mids separately and see if anyone else has any use for them.

give them a go if you can. I bought mine from audio images in bradford some time ago.

Steve,

I wouldn't bridge a two channel amp into one for running front speakers, the quality just plummets if you do. Far better of finding a very efficient speaker with the most poweful front end amp you can afford.

I am far more inclined to put proper amplification into the fronts and spend less on the sub. It is less sensitive to lower quality signal. You will hear it distort but in overall impression it is far better to turn down the bass than the fronts as the sound suffers far less that way.

Besides I still get nicer noises from my turbo!


edited to add:

AVI website

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Spent today looking at head units, since it looks likely that my current one will go with the car...

How depressing! I figured the thing to do would be to compile a shortlist of models with the features I want, then try and seek out a dealer that can demo them properly. I want a clear, well laid-out front panel with controls that are easy to find by touch, a decent sized display that I can read at a glance, and an overall finish that matches my car. Is that so unreasonable?

Apparently yes. I've spent the day poking fiddly little buttons, squinting at information overlaid on distracting and pointless animation and wondering exactly what I'm supposed to buy to match a car whose interior lighting isn't blue. It appears that 2004 is the year of style over substance in the car stereo world. What use is a bloody touchscreen when I'm supposed to be watching the road??

Anyway, in no particular order, my list of tolerably inoffensive units has come down to:

Sony CDXF7700 (stylish, but Sony are unreliable in my extensive past experience)
Alpine CDA-9833R (expensive and lots of toys I don't need, but looks good and I can colour match it to my car)
Pioneer DEH-P7600MP (Saw and liked the 5400 but needed a bigger display, the 7600 seems to address this but haven't actually seen it for real)
JVC EXAD KD-LHX601 (having DAB might be cool, the 401 was quite nice)
Becker Monza MP3 (Expensive again and rather basic - need to hear this one to know if it's worth it)

Any suggestions before I just pin my various brochures up on the wall and throw a dart? After all, they all just play CDs at the end of the day.

Adam M

Becker in my experience have always been lovely.I had them in the old school days, I had heard the new ones weren't so good anymore. sound quality was unrivalled except by McIntosh units, whch you probably don't want!

Am anti sony in car. they are great for standard fit, but sound quality of top units is never anything special.

Pioneer, not familiar with that model, but have been an avid pioneer fan for a long time.

alpine used to be class leaders and the one to have, then had a significant sales drop and came back guns blazing by copying gimicky pioneer features.

There are some brushed ally finished classic basic looking pioneer models. thery would be what i woudl look at. No fancy graphics just clean and simple lines with great sound quality.


Not had JVC, but not keen on the name, but thats a personal thing.

chiark

Adam, have u got any more info on the AVI stuff, as there's not a lot of explanation on their websites.
Cheers,
Nick.

Adam M

only what my ears tell me nick!

they seem to be a producer of monitor speakers for professional music studios mainly.

Not many people have been using them in the car audio world, and having heard them extensively, I really can't imagine why.

I can't find many reviews either. I bought them on the recommendation of the trusted dealership in bradford because they offered me a fantastic price and the demo pair I had heard could have kept up with my home hifi for quality alone (not for imaging or bass response admittedly).

The discount was just too good not to give them a go, and even just running the midbass drivers, I am not let down. I just wish I had the inclination to install the passives and tweeters but I think it would be too much work, especially since I am already so pleased with them.

TomCat

Fitted the Dyns this weekend powered by a 2 x 150WRMS Sony amp. Sound great!
12mm MDF collars ween't too much hassle, crossovers under the dash, and the tweeters seem to fit quite neatly in front of the kick panel angled up- just secured with blu-tak at the moment.

I'd Dynamatted the doors, but the door cards buzz when I crank up the volume though - anyone got ideas on how to damp them?

After its settled in maybe I need to uprate the head unit - currently Pioneer DEH1600 but though good, the sound doesn't have the resolution I get with the Dyns on my home hifi. Is there any point going for something like the Alpine CDM9823R at £124 with its "1 bit regulated DAC" or would I need to go for high-end stuff to make a difference?

Adam M

not sure if you'll be too keen on this plan but it worked for me.

I used a layer of foam (thickness of your choice) stuck on the outside of the inner door skin - ie. the nearest inward facing member that makes up the metal of the door.

The foam if the thickness is correctly chosen should be wedged between the frame and the card when the card is reinstalled.

This kind of pushes it out but is the same as you holding your hand on it to stop vibration.

Make sure it doesn't get in the way of moving parts.

disclaimer: did this on my type R whose doors may be of different design. It worked for me, but it may not be the solution you are looking for. good luck.