Highest power level from a TMIC
03 November 2013, 08:29 PM
#3
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Location: Enginetuner.co.uk Plymouth Dyno Dynamics RR Engine machining and building EcuTek SimTek mapping
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The issue is charge temperature and nothing else. We supply and map a lot of plug and play ECU's, Syvecs and Simtek/Alcatek mostly. They use charge temp sensing as part of the package. It's a revelation to start with, when you realise how high the charge temp can get on some of these cars. The stock Subaru ECU doesn't refer to it at all, on the basis that they were quite satisfied that the car they produced can cope, thanks all the same. It's us who go around raising the boost levels that cause the problem, in their mind anyway.
We've seen 70/80 degrees of charge temp from some tuned Scoobies with top mounts. Until we persuaded the owners to fit front mounts that is. After that, generally speaking, no worries.
On average, we'd say 300 ish on a decent classic STi top mount and 400 ish on a decent New Age Sti top mount is about it. I look at it as being the amount of charge temp the cooler can cope with, when presented with the sort of charge temps likely from that sort of boost pressure, which is the correct way of looking at it.
In any case, there's a big difference in charge temps to be found, for example, if drag racing in the Midlands in November, or a track day in Spain in July.
I'd say you'd gain far more than you'd lose from a well fitted front mount intercooler.
03 November 2013, 09:33 PM
#4
Strictly speaking, you're asking the wrong question. If you'd asked what you can get away with on average that might be more like it.
The issue is charge temperature and nothing else. We supply and map a lot of plug and play ECU's, Syvecs and Simtek/Alcatek mostly. They use charge temp sensing as part of the package. It's a revelation to start with, when you realise how high the charge temp can get on some of these cars. The stock Subaru ECU doesn't refer to it at all, on the basis that they were quite satisfied that the car they produced can cope, thanks all the same. It's us who go around raising the boost levels that cause the problem, in their mind anyway.
We've seen 70/80 degrees of charge temp from some tuned Scoobies with top mounts. Until we persuaded the owners to fit front mounts that is. After that, generally speaking, no worries.
On average, we'd say 300 ish on a decent classic STi top mount and 400 ish on a decent New Age Sti top mount is about it. I look at it as being the amount of charge temp the cooler can cope with, when presented with the sort of charge temps likely from that sort of boost pressure, which is the correct way of looking at it.
In any case, there's a big difference in charge temps to be found, for example, if drag racing in the Midlands in November, or a track day in Spain in July.
I'd say you'd gain far more than you'd lose from a well fitted front mount intercooler.
The issue is charge temperature and nothing else. We supply and map a lot of plug and play ECU's, Syvecs and Simtek/Alcatek mostly. They use charge temp sensing as part of the package. It's a revelation to start with, when you realise how high the charge temp can get on some of these cars. The stock Subaru ECU doesn't refer to it at all, on the basis that they were quite satisfied that the car they produced can cope, thanks all the same. It's us who go around raising the boost levels that cause the problem, in their mind anyway.
We've seen 70/80 degrees of charge temp from some tuned Scoobies with top mounts. Until we persuaded the owners to fit front mounts that is. After that, generally speaking, no worries.
On average, we'd say 300 ish on a decent classic STi top mount and 400 ish on a decent New Age Sti top mount is about it. I look at it as being the amount of charge temp the cooler can cope with, when presented with the sort of charge temps likely from that sort of boost pressure, which is the correct way of looking at it.
In any case, there's a big difference in charge temps to be found, for example, if drag racing in the Midlands in November, or a track day in Spain in July.
I'd say you'd gain far more than you'd lose from a well fitted front mount intercooler.
Never thought about that way before tbh. I'd be looking at going no higher than 400 on my P1 and will be strictly a road car so no high track temps to worry about. Might swap to a newage TMIC then for now.
03 November 2013, 10:07 PM
#5
Car was a road car
Now just used on track, sprints,
I am only running 1.5 bar of boost,
Mapped by MartinJ
I do monitor charge temps,
I am going front mount for next year,
Engine been in over 2 years, also running Nos on top of this power, all good,
You will get heat soak with a top mount when stood in traffic
Bez
Now just used on track, sprints,
I am only running 1.5 bar of boost,
Mapped by MartinJ
I do monitor charge temps,
I am going front mount for next year,
Engine been in over 2 years, also running Nos on top of this power, all good,
You will get heat soak with a top mount when stood in traffic
Bez
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04 November 2013, 08:43 PM
#9
I have done a fair few track days,
When going out on the track I do a lap to get air flowing over intercooler to get rid of heat soak,
Then start to give it some,
Temps run about 16deg above ambient
When I was at the ring, outside temp was 20deg c, charge temp was 36deg c,
My car runs 487bhp but I only run1.5 bar of boost, if you are going to be running more boost than 1.5bar then you might find that you run more than 16deg above ambient,
Mine was also holding at 16deg above ambient, again running more boost the charge temp might keep creeping up,
I also do a lot of sprinting, so with the top mount, there is very little lag even with a Gt3076
I do get a lot of heat soak when car is stood between runs,
I am going to be running more boost and more power but fitting a hyperflow monster front mount to cope with charge cooling,
Hope this info helps,
Bez
04 November 2013, 09:06 PM
#11
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Normal driving no problems at all,
I have done a fair few track days,
When going out on the track I do a lap to get air flowing over intercooler to get rid of heat soak,
Then start to give it some,
Temps run about 16deg above ambient
When I was at the ring, outside temp was 20deg c, charge temp was 36deg c,
My car runs 487bhp but I only run1.5 bar of boost, if you are going to be running more boost than 1.5bar then you might find that you run more than 16deg above ambient,
Mine was also holding at 16deg above ambient, again running more boost the charge temp might keep creeping up,
I also do a lot of sprinting, so with the top mount, there is very little lag even with a Gt3076
I do get a lot of heat soak when car is stood between runs,
I am going to be running more boost and more power but fitting a hyperflow monster front mount to cope with charge cooling,
Hope this info helps,
Bez
I have done a fair few track days,
When going out on the track I do a lap to get air flowing over intercooler to get rid of heat soak,
Then start to give it some,
Temps run about 16deg above ambient
When I was at the ring, outside temp was 20deg c, charge temp was 36deg c,
My car runs 487bhp but I only run1.5 bar of boost, if you are going to be running more boost than 1.5bar then you might find that you run more than 16deg above ambient,
Mine was also holding at 16deg above ambient, again running more boost the charge temp might keep creeping up,
I also do a lot of sprinting, so with the top mount, there is very little lag even with a Gt3076
I do get a lot of heat soak when car is stood between runs,
I am going to be running more boost and more power but fitting a hyperflow monster front mount to cope with charge cooling,
Hope this info helps,
Bez
Cheers Ian.
04 November 2013, 09:39 PM
#13
Std Position turbo
Top mount
std ecu
Yep you was doing well with the temps,
Tidgy, 404 is still very good power, and you will show most cars how to go on,
it would be a very rapid car,
The heatsoak gets me,
And wanting more power, so I know the way forward is a front mount.
Bez
Top mount
std ecu
Yep you was doing well with the temps,
Tidgy, 404 is still very good power, and you will show most cars how to go on,
it would be a very rapid car,
The heatsoak gets me,
And wanting more power, so I know the way forward is a front mount.
Bez
04 November 2013, 09:42 PM
#14
Cheers for your reply, I'm still on standard VF35 running around 1.5 bar boost but my engine is in a kitcar so using a chargecooler from an early legacy, on a hot day (circa 32 degrees) I was seeing temps up to about 45 degrees when drag racing after 6 back to back runs so pretty efficient I suppose. But it is holding back power so I'm upgrading at the minute.
Cheers Ian.
Cheers Ian.
More info + pics if you have any please,
is it 2wd or 4wd?
05 November 2013, 12:20 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
Std Position turbo
Top mount
std ecu
Yep you was doing well with the temps,
Tidgy, 404 is still very good power, and you will show most cars how to go on,
it would be a very rapid car,
The heatsoak gets me,
And wanting more power, so I know the way forward is a front mount.
Bez
Top mount
std ecu
Yep you was doing well with the temps,
Tidgy, 404 is still very good power, and you will show most cars how to go on,
it would be a very rapid car,
The heatsoak gets me,
And wanting more power, so I know the way forward is a front mount.
Bez
aye, its a forged 2.5 on an sc46, so at that's its hardly even blowing lol
It ended up being backed off to about 385 on the road cos of heat, front mount is a must though, letting the bank balance replenish a bit before few extra things like syvecs, front mount etc etc lol
05 November 2013, 08:05 PM
#19
aye, its a forged 2.5 on an sc46, so at that's its hardly even blowing lol
It ended up being backed off to about 385 on the road cos of heat, front mount is a must though, letting the bank balance replenish a bit before few extra things like syvecs, front mount etc etc lol
It ended up being backed off to about 385 on the road cos of heat, front mount is a must though, letting the bank balance replenish a bit before few extra things like syvecs, front mount etc etc lol
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