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advice on turbo setup and injectors wanted!

Old 23 October 2013, 06:04 PM
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d.kenny
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Default advice on turbo setup and injectors wanted!

hi all

iv got a problem as i dont know whether or not to go for a twisted turbo setup and gt30 or for an s206!!!

spec is

2,5 nitrided crank
steel rods
mahle stroker pistons
v3 type r sti heads
standard sti cams
front mount
tubi exhaust etc
open deck block
simtek

currently running vf23 at 330 bhp

and as always i want more power

so firstly need injectors...think im gonna be looking at 800cc side feds so does anyone have a rough idea of price of these and the best place to get them???

also do i go for a twisted setup with a gt30 or for an s206 as all in all iv priced both setups up and can do both setups for roughly the same money

car is predominantly a track car with cage and bucket seats however i have got it tax'd and mot'd so go for the odd blast

im thinking into the deal to get the simtek upgraded to alkatek so i can have amild and wild mapping but dtruggling on deciding what setup to go for

my limiting factor at the minute is my gear box 5 speed dccd but il just use it til it pops then go six speed i think

what do you all reckon and what way shal i go?

i think 500 bhp is easily achievable as iv done this build properly and all the parts are brand new so i have confidence in my work!

thanks in advance for any advice
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Old 23 October 2013, 06:16 PM
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I doubt a 5 speed will take 500bhp for long if it can at all,the rotated set up is always going to cost more money to do then a standard position turbo,so it really comes done to how much money you are prepared to spend,800cc injectors are more then enough for your plans.SJ.
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Old 23 October 2013, 06:22 PM
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Yes i wanted to know what the going rate for injectors is and the best place to purchase and whether the roated or standard fit is better???

I have got prices on the both turbo setups its just i dont know which is the better option twisted/rotated or s206

Cheers
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Old 23 October 2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by d.kenny View Post
Yes i wanted to know what the going rate for injectors is and the best place to purchase and whether the roated or standard fit is better???

I have got prices on the both turbo setups its just i dont know which is the better option twisted/rotated or s206

Cheers
Both set ups produce good power but as I said before with the rotated set up more parts are needed I.e...moving your header tank getting new intercooler pipe work made up,etc...but having driven both set ups the rotated depending on turbo used the boost spools up different.injectors lateral performance,roger Clarke Motorsport,scooby clinic etc..prices ranging from 350 up depending who you are buying from.or get your injectors reflowed by lateral performance for cheaper.SJ.
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Old 23 October 2013, 06:51 PM
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what would you recommend then rotated or standard fit

i dont mind doing the work and can fabricate parts

im actually half thinking of making my own rotated setup just need advice on a turbo to use as i dont really understand the trimming etc etc

have people opinions changed on the ebay t3 flange turbos/ gt30 and gt35 copies...has anyone actually ran one and how long did it last etc etc?
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Old 23 October 2013, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by d.kenny View Post
what would you recommend then rotated or standard fit

i dont mind doing the work and can fabricate parts

im actually half thinking of making my own rotated setup just need advice on a turbo to use as i dont really understand the trimming etc etc

have people opinions changed on the ebay t3 flange turbos/ gt30 and gt35 copies...has anyone actually ran one and how long did it last etc etc?
My friend has a Kinugawa turbo that he bought from eBay that's been running good for a few years,the key to a good turbo is not just in the parts but the balancing of the turbo which is where most of the turbos that are sold on eBay suffer,scooby clinic has all but taken over the hybrid turbo market and for good reason,if I was going to get another turbo it would be one of there's I have already got there billet GT35R for my car.I don't mean to put you off but rotated kits are something that has had a lot of development work done over a good few years to get it right the only rotated kit that I can personally vouch for is the RCM kit as it has been fitted to a lot of project cars without any troubles,so if you are going rotated I would proberly go with the RCM one.SJ.
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Old 23 October 2013, 07:14 PM
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is hayward and scott stuff no good then?

i have seen people moan about the fit but if i have to chop and weld stuff i dont mind...i can make it look pretty but i want it to function well to

i was more looking to buy second hand stuff as it is cheaper to start and i can upgrade bits as they blow up or i need to
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Old 23 October 2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by d.kenny View Post
is hayward and scott stuff no good then?

i have seen people moan about the fit but if i have to chop and weld stuff i dont mind...i can make it look pretty but i want it to function well to

i was more looking to buy second hand stuff as it is cheaper to start and i can upgrade bits as they blow up or i need to
Hayward and Scott pipe work is top draw BUT,I have heard people having troubles fitting there rotated kits before and the RCM kit fits like a glove,the second hand way is a very good way of doing it and can save you me personally like parts which are fit for purpose for a specific job if you get a part and have to cut and shut it to get it to fit properly,means it was a badly designed product from the beginning and not fit for purpose.SJ.

Last edited by stonejedi; 23 October 2013 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 23 October 2013, 07:31 PM
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well if i buy second hand stuff then thats actually ran on a car at least i know it works haha

im still confused about the turbos though

for this setup (rotated) im right in saying i need a gt30 but when i look through ebay (which is where i do a lot of research haha) there seems toi be a massively varying amount of gt30 turbos as in rip offs and genuines and obviously i wont know the quality of a turbo til i try it if i buy brand new but typically what AR am i looking for and bearing variations etc?

am i right in thinking basically whatever turbo i fit hardware wise will work but just wont be as good as a tailored one once all the mapping and that is done etc?
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Old 23 October 2013, 07:48 PM
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Gt30 is a nice turbo that gives good power a Gt35 good midrange and top end but i would not recommend for a 2.0 or a 2.1 even though people have done it before with good results I personally think it would be to laggy if you are looking for a responsive car,if you are adamant in getting an eBay turbo get it balanced at a place like :http://www.crturbos.co.ukor better yet get one of there Garrett turbos which are cheaper then the mainstream specialist but the quality is still top draw I was running one of there GT28 roller bearing on my last engine and it produced superb power.SJ.
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Old 24 October 2013, 09:15 AM
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its a track car so its on the power all the time then again it is annoying sometimes having nothing off the bottom

so what in all honesty do you recommend haha?

shal i go s206 or for the gt30 rotated setup?
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Old 24 October 2013, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by d.kenny View Post
its a track car so its on the power all the time then again it is annoying sometimes having nothing off the bottom

so what in all honesty do you recommend haha?

shal i go s206 or for the gt30 rotated setup?
If It was me i would do the rotated GT30 set up,but I still believe you can get very good power from a standard position turbo so really you have to decide what is right for you,take everything into account money parts needed time scale and plan your route out properly then make a final decision and be done with that.SJ.
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Old 24 October 2013, 10:14 AM
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All depends on your need, a s206 is way more responsive than a gt30, having driven both the s206 is a way nicer drive.

If you want more than 550hp, you will need rotated, but to be honest with your set up it sounds like a standard fit turbo will do the job just fine with alot less work involved!

an s206 is a perfect set up for a 2.1. cannot recommend it highly enough, and consistently produces over 500hp on most builds. Ive seen alot of "500hp" turbos that rarely get close to 500, most s206s are over the 500

Check my project out for pictures.
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Old 24 October 2013, 10:15 AM
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And definitely get the alcatek upgrade too,
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Old 24 October 2013, 10:57 AM
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I half wanna make some of the bits though to haha i really wanna make my own rotated setup...can make for any flange i want
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Old 24 October 2013, 11:06 AM
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you need to modify the downpipe for the 206;
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Old 24 October 2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by JGlanzaV View Post
All depends on your need, a s206 is way more responsive than a gt30, having driven both the s206 is a way nicer drive.

If you want more than 550hp, you will need rotated, but to be honest with your set up it sounds like a standard fit turbo will do the job just fine with alot less work involved!

an s206 is a perfect set up for a 2.1. cannot recommend it highly enough, and consistently produces over 500hp on most builds. Ive seen alot of "500hp" turbos that rarely get close to 500, most s206s are over the 500

Check my project out for pictures.
Cheers J I don't know to much about the S206 turbo only driven one car with it fitted and it flew,I have always been a Garrettt man myself since my uno and R5 turbo days.Well I think you should have more then enough info now to make your own mind up,I admire you for wanting to fabricate things yourself but what you need to understand these subaru specialist do a lot of trial and error until they get it perfect to sell to the customer,if you got lots of time on your hands to kill then why not but me myself would allow the specialist to do the hard work and me reap the benefits SJ.
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Old 24 October 2013, 11:39 AM
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Yeah, it is a very very nice turbo, for 500hp it is perfect, no faffing about with rotating everything, and it really does pick up from low down, by 3.5k things are coming on nicely, and by 4k you really know you are shifting...

GT30s just seem laggy to me, on a 2.5 or 2.35 i think a gt30 would be a better choice than the 206, but for the 2.0/1 i prefer the 206 as its much more dirveable on the road, you dont have to thrash it everywhere to get it to go
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Old 24 October 2013, 12:23 PM
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If inwas to make the setup which is inevitable haha whats the going size of up pipe diameter to favricate it all from i reckon i can do the pipework and down pipe for about 100 quid
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Old 24 October 2013, 02:34 PM
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whats the optimum up pipe size would you say?
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Old 24 October 2013, 03:02 PM
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up pipe from ex to turbo?

That all depends on what turbo you are using etc, mine is 1.5"
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Old 24 October 2013, 03:32 PM
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1.5 inch seems small to me?!

I reckon im gonna go for gt30 style or 35 ar.70 and ar.63 does that seem right or to big or small iv been told my heads will only flow around 450 absolute max?

I cant understand it though as loads of people run more on totally standard engines unless they are just pub figures
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Old 24 October 2013, 03:53 PM
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Im using standard v3 heads at 535hp, what happens is your torque will drop off alot at high rpm.

If you really want to go gt30 then thats your choice, I would rive one first though, and one with an s206, as the lag is horrible on the gt30.

I dont see the point in doing all this extra work for the same out put at the end, and a less driveable car.
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Old 24 October 2013, 04:02 PM
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Where am i gonna get to have a drive in both of them lol

Im the only one out of all my mates this fascinated with subarus and gwtting oily everydy after work and at the weekend haha

Tbh i think i just wanted to try somet different with making my own setup and ebay turbo rather than spend a grand straight off on a bolt on turbo and cheque book build

Reality is though it will take much longer building it than buying it all

Can get an s206 fitting kit and injectors for 1400 i think iv worked it out as

Think i wanted a twisted so i could have a screamer pipe to lol

It is hard to make my mind up as like you say i have not been in either equipped subaru or one with genuinely more power than mine so font know where to go with the whole setup

Back to basics what is a realistic power figure i can expect to achieve on pump fuel with my engine?

I dont know what power i want as i just want more than my 330 i have now as it only really feels quick down to the gearbox as its a type r one...the only time it felt quick was when a vac pipe aplit and wa running stupid boost as in it launched off in 5th like it was in first or second

I just want it to be exhilirating to drive every time lol (**** my pants everytime) haha
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Old 24 October 2013, 04:03 PM
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I dont want to spend x amount an then to make more power need to spend loads more when i could of just done aomething else instead

Then again saying that am i likely to get tired of 400 to 450 brake?
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Old 24 October 2013, 04:06 PM
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if its a road car, you probably want 350-380 and concentrate on the handling, nothing will make you **** yourself like hitting a bend on a road at a stupid speed.

If its a track/race car, then 500 is nice...

Tbh, 500 for road use is too much, the handling and what not just means it is far too fast for road use.

I dont know where you are based but you are welcome to come for a spin in mine....

I made 485 on pump fuel on the 206. Its not about the power figures either, its about useable power band, a gt30 will be dead until 4.5-5k, then BOOM, but on standard heads youll rev out at what 7.5k? so you get 3k rpm of decent power.

my 206, is from 3500-7500, an extra 1k rpm of power will beat a higher powered gt30 equipped car on the road, it is all about the power band, and what you want to use it for is very important.

the s206 is the best all rounder for road use and big power IMO


Edit: a screamer pipe will get on your **** after a few weeks, trust me
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Old 24 October 2013, 04:21 PM
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It is predominantly a track car so screamer pipe is prob a silly idea for track use

It is road legal but im gonna upgrade my ecu so can have switchable maps so a wet weather/low boost map for the road and a ***** out map for the track and dry weather

Handling wise its pretty well sorted...hard race adjustable and br coilovers brakes will prob need looking at but they are the biggest i can fit under 16s

And im in the midlands
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Old 24 October 2013, 04:22 PM
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Where are you?
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Old 24 October 2013, 04:23 PM
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Where in the midlands? I'm in plymouth

Im quite often up that way doing track days etc
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Old 24 October 2013, 04:43 PM
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On a open deck block and not running 14mm i would advise neither
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