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advice on turbo setup and injectors wanted!

Old 24 October 2013, 04:50 PM
  #31  
JGlanzaV
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Why? lol, mine is on an open deck block, and has done over 20k mile/4 years of hard abuse, and its on 11mm studs. Shock Horror! :O

There is no reason an open deck block cant be used.
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Old 24 October 2013, 05:15 PM
  #32  
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if the headgaskets go pop il take the engine out and redo them no biggy...i can have chance to tidy the engine bay up and aint it more the boost that causes the heads to lift? not the power output??
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Old 24 October 2013, 05:17 PM
  #33  
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and im in coventry

i think from what jglanzav is saying has swayed me towards s206

im negotiating the price of turbo fitting kit and injectors now so i could have it up and running quicker than i intended!

i think il max out what i can achieve with that turbo and not max the turbo out so it will do

also if my head gaskets go pop il port have the heads ported while im at it and maybe look at cams but i think if i run it at say 1.5 bar or maybe less for 400 ish brake if that sounds about right then im sure it will last do you not agree?

cheers
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Old 24 October 2013, 05:21 PM
  #34  
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It shouldnt be an issue, like i said, i run mine at 2.1bar on standard v3 heads and have done for years....

Low boost was 1.6bar :P

Glad i could help, it isnt a choice you will regret
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Old 24 October 2013, 06:53 PM
  #35  
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I hope i dont lol

Il try and post some progress pics and rr results

Maybe bump into eachother on track in future haha
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Old 24 October 2013, 08:08 PM
  #36  
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what would you say a fair price is second hand for turbo and fitting kit as in intake and intercooler modded pipes water oil etc and manifold spacers and also 80cc injectors?

basically everything to bolt the s206 turbo on with no hassle and no extyra parts needed?

cheers
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Old 26 October 2013, 01:52 AM
  #37  
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Hi there

From personal experience I would go with MDX321T or SC42,which should work on yours.

Really depends on yours goals,do want good spool or do want more top end,if car is more track based car I would go probably towards with T or SC42,which should make nice 450bhp+(this really depends on fuel used and mods)

I've run T on the 2.1L which has been awesome turbo and on the track has been perfect choice

Now running GT30 .63AR and must admit,this I can't compare to the standard location turbo,just due boost is coming much faster/sooner and much more violently etc

Comparing Rotated turbo to standard you shouldn't,try like Rotated and standard location and you will love Rotated GT30

Jura
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Old 26 October 2013, 08:33 AM
  #38  
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I think they have been going about 1500 for the turbo and fitting kit etc?
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Old 26 October 2013, 09:14 AM
  #39  
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That a second hand price or new?

Whats jura suggesting a gt30 or a.n other???

Haha
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Old 26 October 2013, 09:27 AM
  #40  
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a.n.other, but they wont give you your 500

and he suggest gt30, but his is on a 2.35 not a 2.1
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Old 26 October 2013, 09:38 AM
  #41  
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Hi there

Prices for both turbo are very similar and sometimes you can find MDX321T used for sale and too SC42

SC42 turbo

http://shop.scoobyclinic.com/index.p...product_id=131

MDX555-450(This turbo using same components as MDX321T and using same turbine as MDX321T,LM450)

http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/shop/...hp-p-4202.html

With S206 turbo you will need to get custom Downpipe and this is extra,last time what I've seen S206 for sale,prices has been around 900-1200

GT30,I would go with probably like with GT3040 or GT30.63AR and if its billet then I would choose Billet

Price for them,really varies,stay away from eBay specials(they're usually cost under 400 as new),they're not true Ball Bearing(usually Journal bearing),but for genuine used GT30 fair price can be around 400-700(for billet GT30 from 900-1200)

For those GT30 you will need rotated/twisted kit,at this point really depends on budget and I would choose custom mad kit from [email protected] or [email protected] Performance and many other,plus you will need external wastegate,Turbosmart or Tial are best and most used,beware out are too fake Tial(they're cost less than genuine Tial and mostly they're using inferior parts,if you are unsure post the link over here or speak with yours builder)

Jura
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Old 26 October 2013, 11:15 AM
  #42  
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Jura do you know anything about demon motorsport wastegates any good?
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Old 26 October 2013, 11:19 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by gazney101 View Post
Jura do you know anything about demon motorsport wastegates any good?
no, use tial, sard, turbosmart, hks etc.

cheap wastegate if it fails engine goes boom
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Old 26 October 2013, 11:35 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by JGlanzaV View Post
no, use tial, sard, turbosmart, hks etc.

cheap wastegate if it fails engine goes boom
+1 TIAL or Turbosmart is where it's at I've used both company's parts and there Quality try to buy from a reputable dealer as there is a lot of snide parts especially on auction sites like eBay,which is a haven for such forgery parts,my mate bought a supposed to be original TIAL wastegate recently and the box it came in said made in China,made me laughyou have been warned.SJ.
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Old 26 October 2013, 11:39 AM
  #45  
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For example:http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/authenticitySJ.
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Old 26 October 2013, 11:50 AM
  #46  
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Hmmmm, i bought a demon one after reading some reviews on a nissan forum, it was too cheap not to try one, having looked at it the quality seems pretty good, the only thing thats iffy is the vband clamps they seem too weak but apart from that it looks ok. It will get its chance anyway and if its **** ill just use a tial
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Old 26 October 2013, 11:55 AM
  #47  
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just to be different and throw it out there, ever thought of twinscroll conversion?

I'm on an LM450 with supporting mods and getting 453 // 446 and hit full boost by 3200 rpm it starts to spool almost instantly lol and hopefully will see 500 with meth, if you want a 500hp standard position they also do the LM500.

There is also twinscroll gt30's out there now which should make things interesting

There are so many options it will give you nosebleeds from all the thinking
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Old 26 October 2013, 11:58 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by gazney101 View Post
Hmmmm, i bought a demon one after reading some reviews on a nissan forum, it was too cheap not to try one, having looked at it the quality seems pretty good, the only thing thats iffy is the vband clamps they seem too weak but apart from that it looks ok. It will get its chance anyway and if its **** ill just use a tial
Your engine could be gone by then!Hopefully not,next year if I get some spare cash my friend and I want to see if we can make a decent car that can be built and last comprising of parts solely from eBay.SJ.
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Old 26 October 2013, 11:59 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by gazney101 View Post
Hmmmm, i bought a demon one after reading some reviews on a nissan forum, it was too cheap not to try one, having looked at it the quality seems pretty good, the only thing thats iffy is the vband clamps they seem too weak but apart from that it looks ok. It will get its chance anyway and if its **** ill just use a tial
Let us know how you get on with it,but I'm a true believer that you get what you pay for.SJ.
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Old 26 October 2013, 12:00 PM
  #50  
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If it is **** and doesnt work properly changing the wastegate will be the least of your worries, changing the engine will be a more immediate issue...

And would also recommend listening to craigs advice it is definitely worth considering a twin scroll
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Old 26 October 2013, 01:14 PM
  #51  
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Those cheap wastegate have rave reviews,some have good experience with them and some guys has have problems with them

Main issue with them from reports is diaphragm,which is not so strong as on the Tial/TurboSmart or any other good makers,second bit issue can be spring or wastegate itself

About the Twin scroll,for best from Twin Scroll you will need AVCS and preferably JDM cams,without the AVCS is pointless to do,on non AVCS heads Twin Scroll will never spool as on AVCS

Jura
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Old 26 October 2013, 01:51 PM
  #52  
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I think im gonna make the twisted kit myself...engineer and all so wont be to hard and il enjoy doing it plus if it works its me stamping my mark haha

What about other turbos...holset borg warner etc etc anyone recommend an ideal size one of these for 450 to 500 brake on ny engine???

When looking at turbo specs whats most important to me to define the right one? Trim ar etc etc

Cheers?

Anyone got any 800cc injectors or more to side fed?
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Old 26 October 2013, 02:06 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by d.kenny View Post
I think im gonna make the twisted kit myself...engineer and all so wont be to hard and il enjoy doing it plus if it works its me stamping my mark haha

What about other turbos...holset borg warner etc etc anyone recommend an ideal size one of these for 450 to 500 brake on ny engine???

When looking at turbo specs whats most important to me to define the right one? Trim ar etc etc

Cheers?

Anyone got any 800cc injectors or more to side fed?
Hi there

If you are looking for 450-500hp I would go with GT3040 .63AR or GT3076R 63AR,but best from both worlds you are want Billet 30R with 63AR

Some people run Precision Turbo which are hit and miss on the Subaru,from what I've seen they have great spool,but they don't making claimed power

Borg Warner this turbo seems is great turbo,we are want previously to run this turbo,but everything changed

BW Turbo are usually Twin scroll and what I've read seems those turbo doesn't work on Subaru as on other makers like EVO,Civic etc

I would suggest conversion to Top feed and go with DW or ID1000's injectors,we are running ID1000 and they're spotless and idle is just perfect

Jura
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Old 26 October 2013, 04:55 PM
  #54  
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So i want exhaust ar .63 and what compressor ar .70???

Il start looking to aquire what you say

Even if i do get a cheap one to mock it up and if it works for a bit or a while it will be a bonus gonna get a propa wastegate...is 40mm big enough or do i need bigger??? Pipe work should be an issue...at ny local pipe benders though for the up pipe they only have 2 1/4 inch or 2 3/4 mandrels so whats best to go for for the up pipe???

Gonna utilise as much standard stuff as possible as it works and il make the wastegate pipe flow in all nice to the downpipe to

Pretty
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Old 26 October 2013, 04:57 PM
  #55  
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Pretty looking forward to collecting parts an making stuff for it to work

Is top feed injectors just a case of fitting new age fuel rails or is there more to it than that?
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Old 26 October 2013, 05:05 PM
  #56  
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What turbo are you deciding to go for?SJ.
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Old 26 October 2013, 05:38 PM
  #57  
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The uppipe at 2" will be way too big. Turbo cars dont just need a massive bore pipework for the exhaust before the turbo as it will make it laggy as you get massive heat transfer into the exhaust system rather than the turbo and you get a low velocity exhaust charge.

As said mine is 1.5" at a max, i actually think it is something more like 1.25".... I shall check and let you know, but 2" is massive....

You want to transfer maximum heat and velocity into the turbo, not into the exhaust pipework otherwise it will be sluggish and unresponsive.

Exhausts arent a simple thing to make on a turbo car, on the actual exhaust side of the turbo, downpipe - backbox, you do want as large-a-pipe a possible to expel as much gas as possible as fast as possible.

But the inlet side is extremely complicated between making it keep optimum velocity without been restrictive, getting the heat into the turbo without over heating the metal work, matching the pulse lengths and many other variables (making the pipework line up perfectly)

And what materials will you use? 304 stainless is not the best material for turbo cars, esp if running AL and LC etc.

I would contact Chris at KillerB Motorsport for your technical questions about exhausts as he has done many years of experience of this.

Again, everyone goes with the conventional "norm" and all follows in each others steps resulting in a whole heap of generic builds that all look the same. 740cc injectors flow more than enough for 500hp. thats what i use on my build and have plenty of head room.

Do some research, and talk to builders, and research other builds. There is mountains of info and dont just go with the convention, as alot of it is over kill and not required.

Especially look at craigs (infected by sti) build, as he is doing some wicked stuff with the twinscroll set up. Look at my build, makes awesome figures and doesnt follow the norm. Look at the builds that Trails posted on my build too from 22b.

If you are an engineer, do the research, and find and come to your own conclusions for an engineering reason, not because a group of people told you to on here, as alot of people just repeat the same old information from 2nd hand sources that was probably not quite right in the first place.

It isnt just a case of welding the pipes etc, it is far more involved than that for it to work well. And as said above, an s206, will make 500hp, and does it all the time, a gt30 is way laggier on a 2.1 than the s206 and makes similar power.... Just need to compare the graphs to see this.

It just seems like an awful lot of work for not an awful lot of meaningful gain,...
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Old 26 October 2013, 06:07 PM
  #58  
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Ive got hayward and scott pipework for my gt30r setup with 2inch uppipe.

I have no idea what to expect from it, h&s asked me what size up pipe i wanted so i just copied off the perrin up pipe as they are reputable, after a year of research i decided that rotated was for me because of the way they deliver the power, the brutality is what i want and rotated is the way to get it
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Old 26 October 2013, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JGlanzaV View Post
The uppipe at 2" will be way too big. Turbo cars dont just need a massive bore pipework for the exhaust before the turbo as it will make it laggy as you get massive heat transfer into the exhaust system rather than the turbo and you get a low velocity exhaust charge.

As said mine is 1.5" at a max, i actually think it is something more like 1.25".... I shall check and let you know, but 2" is massive....

You want to transfer maximum heat and velocity into the turbo, not into the exhaust pipework otherwise it will be sluggish and unresponsive.

Exhausts arent a simple thing to make on a turbo car, on the actual exhaust side of the turbo, downpipe - backbox, you do want as large-a-pipe a possible to expel as much gas as possible as fast as possible.

But the inlet side is extremely complicated between making it keep optimum velocity without been restrictive, getting the heat into the turbo without over heating the metal work, matching the pulse lengths and many other variables (making the pipework line up perfectly)

And what materials will you use? 304 stainless is not the best material for turbo cars, esp if running AL and LC etc.

I would contact Chris at KillerB Motorsport for your technical questions about exhausts as he has done many years of experience of this.

Again, everyone goes with the conventional "norm" and all follows in each others steps resulting in a whole heap of generic builds that all look the same. 740cc injectors flow more than enough for 500hp. thats what i use on my build and have plenty of head room.

Do some research, and talk to builders, and research other builds. There is mountains of info and dont just go with the convention, as alot of it is over kill and not required.

Especially look at craigs (infected by sti) build, as he is doing some wicked stuff with the twinscroll set up. Look at my build, makes awesome figures and doesnt follow the norm. Look at the builds that Trails posted on my build too from 22b.

If you are an engineer, do the research, and find and come to your own conclusions for an engineering reason, not because a group of people told you to on here, as alot of people just repeat the same old information from 2nd hand sources that was probably not quite right in the first place.

It isnt just a case of welding the pipes etc, it is far more involved than that for it to work well. And as said above, an s206, will make 500hp, and does it all the time, a gt30 is way laggier on a 2.1 than the s206 and makes similar power.... Just need to compare the graphs to see this.

It just seems like an awful lot of work for not an awful lot of meaningful gain,...
Hi there

Probably I will be talking more from my experience than what someone said...

We run previously H&S Twisted kit,but previous owner of this Twisted kit modified Up Pipe and fitted inside Venturi,which has been 1.75" wide(Up pipe itself has been in middle just 1.75") and this has created back pressure,which has resulted in low bhp reading,we are made on GT35r just 490bhp on V-power at 1.6bar,on 0.7bar we are made 400bhp and on 1.0bar 450bhp

This is has been posted like on my thread and I've travelled almost every possible thread on this matter and almost everyone has have different opinion

But this only my experience,which I've spoke with few builders and they confirm,2" Up pipe should easy support 800bhp,1.5" should support around 520-550bhp above that can be this restricted

740cc injectors will flow enough with higher fuel pressure and twin fuel setup,with single 255LPH or even 340lph you will struggle above 500bhp,have run too 750cc injectors at 490bhp plus NOS and we are hit several times 91-95% IDC, which is not high,after fitting Swirl pot and 044 our IDC has went down to 80%

About the Craig Twin Scroll,are you tried Twin Scroll on the non AVCS car 2.0L GC8 or New age WRX?

I've tried on the classic which has been equipped with LM400 and has been laggier than 20G,which he run previously.Twin Scroll on 2.1 without the AVCS will be laggy,with AVCS will and is awesome combo.

As per everyone has going same route,that's your view almost every build is not the same and never will be same,500bhp turbo will not make on different engine/car same power as on previous car,there is lot variables

On yours car has made 500bhp+,on different will not make above 500bhp,in our case we are made 490bhp on MDX321T on V-power and 20% methanol,on similar spec this turbo has made just 480bhp on V-Power and 20% methanol

Twisted kit is way to go,if he thinking to not to stick just with 500bhp,if he want to go above Twisted kit is best way to go and on longer run can be cheaper too


Here is GT3040 on the 2.1L stroker and non AVCS heads



GT35R on 2.1L with AVCS





Jura
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Old 26 October 2013, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gazney101 View Post
Ive got hayward and scott pipework for my gt30r setup with 2inch uppipe.

I have no idea what to expect from it, h&s asked me what size up pipe i wanted so i just copied off the perrin up pipe as they are reputable, after a year of research i decided that rotated was for me because of the way they deliver the power, the brutality is what i want and rotated is the way to get it
2" Up pipe should be OK there and you should be OK too on 30R

You will love Twisted kit and you will love how it spools,we are love our and spool is just crazy,although we are running 2.35,in yours case can be slower,but I don't expect will be too laggy although lag is sometimes nice

Jura
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