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what cc injectors 440 or 550??

Old 05 January 2012, 04:18 PM
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matt077
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Default what cc injectors 440 or 550??

hi all

after a set of injectors for my scooby as aiming for over the 300bhp mark.

which injectors should i be looking at? 440cc or 550cc injectors, dont seem to be many around for sale atm

spec of car, decat 3" system, front mount, itg filter, td05 16g or 20g turbo, walbro 255 fuel pump then will be topped off with a remap
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Old 05 January 2012, 04:30 PM
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440's and the 16g are more than enough.
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Old 05 January 2012, 04:30 PM
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Had 440's on my 320bhp classic, rest of the mods were pretty much identical too.
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Old 05 January 2012, 04:37 PM
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440's are more than enough as tony says, plus 440 yellows go for 50 a set. 550's go for over 200+ a set

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Old 05 January 2012, 04:40 PM
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53
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440's and then if needs be get them modified Just make sure you buy Phase 2 injectors and a Carl Davey conversion kit. I have pretty much maxed out my 440's on both my classics c.320 bhp and will be modifying them to 860 IIRC via lateral Performance. Works out better and cheaper than buying 550's

As an aside don't forget to upgrade your Maf if you are keeping it as I have pretty much maxed this also Not a problem on the one car as it's SImtek and mafless but on the other running Apexi/AVCR I will need to upgrade to go any further
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Old 05 January 2012, 04:48 PM
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LP mod the OEM 440 yellows to 930cc IIRC. And 'only' cost 225 (inc VAT).

Easily the best cc/ route - esp. as you can pick a used set of 440s up for 50-60 these days.
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Old 05 January 2012, 08:00 PM
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Can't say I'd recommend modifying the 440 yellows as suggested. Ends up with very poor atomisation and poor fueling response mapping wise IMHO.

440s standard and a TD05, VF35 etc would do you over 300bhp.

Graham
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Old 05 January 2012, 08:12 PM
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Are you suggesting Laterals Modified Injectors give very poor atomisation and poor fueling response mapping wise ?

Loose words, I hope you have experience to back that up! I am thinking not.
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Old 05 January 2012, 08:19 PM
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Not suggesting Lateral's, as I have no direct experience of those. However modified 440s have a very concentrated fuel stream. So the pattern goes from a mist to a stream, I can post pictures of this if need be. The common method to get around this is to put a pintle cap on the end which sprays in a v-spray, but it is still very concentrated. I have pics of what they look like before and after modification and having mapped a number of them and had a number of fuel problems related to them which are then corrected with another set of injectors then I'd say I have enough evidence to back that up.

Graham
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Old 05 January 2012, 08:21 PM
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From experience 440s are good for 340 at standard pressure and can be pushed to 360 at around 4 bar.

have a couple of customer running the reflowed injectors from lateral performance with no issues what so ever
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Old 05 January 2012, 08:24 PM
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Fair enough, anything poorly executed will be a backward step. However on the basis that the only reference to modification in this thread was recommending Lateral Performance Modified and Flow Matched injectors, your general comment was perhaps a little inappropriate IMHO.
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Old 05 January 2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 53 View Post
Fair enough, anything poorly executed will be a backward step. However on the basis that the only reference to modification in this thread was recommending Lateral Performance Modified and Flow Matched injectors, your general comment was perhaps a little inappropriate IMHO.
Ok point taken, although there's a reason that properly manufactured 440cc+ injectors are on the market. The newage modified injectors are substantially better incidentally.

There are also some well known manufactured injectors that possess the same problems inherent in their design, the problem is that no one talks about the quality of injectors and how important it is and how much of a bearing it has on the quality of the overall performance and efficiency.

You're right though, the problems I refer to are not problems of getting them to run. But the finer points regarding efficiency and drive-ability etc. I was actually looking to sell these myself, but decided against it due to the evidence I correlated.

Graham
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Old 05 January 2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by EngineMapper View Post
Not suggesting Lateral's, as I have no direct experience of those. However modified 440s have a very concentrated fuel stream. So the pattern goes from a mist to a stream, I can post pictures of this if need be. The common method to get around this is to put a pintle cap on the end which sprays in a v-spray, but it is still very concentrated. I have pics of what they look like before and after modification and having mapped a number of them and had a number of fuel problems related to them which are then corrected with another set of injectors then I'd say I have enough evidence to back that up.

Graham
when a 440 phase 2 injetor has been modded it looks pretty much the same as the phase 1/1.5 on the end so why is the spray pattern affected as much as you say it is?
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Old 05 January 2012, 08:51 PM
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Single hole injectors are designed with a taper from the needle to provide a misted conical spray as with the earlier 440s. The later 440s with the caps lopped off don't have any taper to help with the spray pattern as the cap is designed with a number of elliptic holes in to provide the correct spray pattern.

Graham
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Old 05 January 2012, 10:59 PM
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Mark Aigin did say to me that his modded 440s (ph.2's) do have the inverted V-pattern spray. Not sure whether it'll be good enough for properly efficient atomisation though.

He also stated that to get the best out of them, a decent aftermarket ECU is needed to drive them e.g. Simtek, Syvecs, or better.

Last edited by joz8968; 05 January 2012 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 05 January 2012, 11:27 PM
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Are these the same injectors (440's) that are on the newage (blob) wrx?
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Old 05 January 2012, 11:32 PM
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the issue with modifying injectors to flow more cc is that not only the spray is neglected, but the variance among all injectors can be nearly 10%!

I use a td05 16g and 550s with my v2. Great combo, leaves a lot of headroom to play with after you remove/upgrade the maf
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Old 06 January 2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Berks-Jack View Post
Are these the same injectors (440's) that are on the newage (blob) wrx?
no the newage are top feed and classics are side feed
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Old 06 January 2012, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dbay View Post
no the newage are top feed and classics are side feed
Hi buddy, thanks for thr reply. Sorry mate I probably didn't word that the best. I meant would they flow the same as te blob injectors? I was curious as to what the blob 440's maxed out at.

Last edited by Berks-Jack; 06 January 2012 at 05:26 PM. Reason: Speeling
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Old 01 February 2016, 09:21 AM
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Old thread but is there any new evidence on injectors in general?
What I mean is are the lateral injectors that are matched and flowed a good set or should I go for something else.
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Old 03 February 2016, 01:44 PM
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I totally echo Engine Mappers comments in this thread, everyone focus on size/flow but spray pattern is largely ignored.

I have always stayed away from re flowed injectors because many do not spray as well as standard items. However having said that there is also at least a couple of standard injectors that do not spray that well either.

As a massive fan of Laterals MD series turbos, a really good bit of kit. If I was ever going to buy a set of re flowed injectors (which I never will) it would definitely be from them.

I would contact them direct perhaps to ask about the spray characteristics of there re flowed 440s.

Cheers
Steve

Last edited by Steve Whitehorn; 03 February 2016 at 01:47 PM.
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