*_Ste_*

Just want opinions really as it's still pretty new. Got a '98 Turbo 2000 which needs mapping, on a budget though so it's either ESL or Apexi. Really want to go MAFless though so only one choice...

Anyone out there running one or mapped any yet?

mikef04

iTrader: (7)

Nope but i have an apexi power fc for a MY98 turbo. Mapped by FB tuning. Will be surplus to requirements.

53

iTrader: (41)

Apexi, nice bit of kit Just fitted one to mine and at second hand prices it's an investment your gonna get back as they sell for consistent money ESL is adequate and it has it's place, but it's lost money come resale.

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

duncan graham has done one of these on some ones car from dorset i belive and all is good

ollie3000

duncan did my 98 wrx last weekend! gone mafless, idles perfect (better than standard) totally happy with it :-)

*_Ste_*

PM me your specs and i'll think about it mate, have you got the commander as well?

Am i right in thinking you can't run MAFless on an Apexi though?

Thing is i have a pretty big filter thats got to come off for now because it just won't fit properly without a shorter intake pipe.

Shaks-STI

iTrader: (7)

I am going to have ESL on my type r and i have heard good stuff about it by Duncan and he said that he did 1 last week and went really well so i assume its yours Ollie3000

Andy Stevens

Adequate? MAF or MAFless switching? Closed Loop knock control? Closed loop idle and cruise? Twin maps? 3D boost control? Factory drive quality and compensations out of the box? Diagnostic control codes? The fact its cheaper new than the Apexi is secondhand?

I can't think of a single reason to fit an Apexi over ESL.

Shaks-STI

iTrader: (7)

i was going to fit Apexi which is a nice piece of kit but with ESL out now i wouldnt, far more features on ESL comparing to Apexi.

Apexi would cost arround £400 plus map and i believe its about 10 years old and the ESL for V3/V4 has just been out for few months.

Why would ESL be a lost of money comes to re sale it? Cant i buy a 2nd hand ESL if there was 1 for sale that would fit V4/V4? If the answer is NO then why not?

*_Ste_*

Because ESL is a daughter board for the existing ECU, the Apexi is standalone so you can just put the standard ECU back in if you sell the car and get it mapped for another one.

Having said that i'm still favouring the ESL, was hoping more people were using it by now though.

Andy Stevens

I don't understand what difference this makes; the stock JECS ECUs don't have any intrinsic value so you can probably pick up a stock replacement for £20. I've seen secondhand ESL boards sell for close to their price new on ebay.

It's only been out a couple of weeks, there are already a good few cars using it, this was one of the first:

http://www.type-ra.co.uk/vB/showthre...6550#post76550

User was very happy and its a good result for a stock turbo.

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Duncan mapped another of the V3/4 ESL boards today, this time on a TT Legacy RS-B......The owner Steve is loving it as is Ollie and Jason with theirs.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

ESL version 3/4 boards have been a long time coming but definitely worth the wait. Really loving mapping them with the new ESL software. This works similarly to the newage software with good datalogging and real time monitoring but with real time amendments too.

Cheers for working into the wee small hours last night Andy to sort through the additions to the software for me - appreciate it mate

jimmyinrugby

iTrader: (1)

Correct me if I am wrong please,but the ESL is around 600 pounds,thats just 200 cheapier than a Simtek (the best ???)
I was going to have a Simtek fitted today but had other things to spend my money on etc,so this has been put off for a few weeks,but I was really thinking of the ESL,I saw the offer of it on Facebook for £295,plus install (I thought that meant map) plus postage and plus vat = 400 quid,a mapper charges what 300 ?...So that makes 700,or buy from a mapper for 600....confused.com,like most I am trying to save the £'s where I can....

jimmyinrugby

iTrader: (1)

And does the ESL bypass the maf ? I broke mine tonight ! lol Can it have that launch controll anti lag ?

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Yes it can - it is switchable in the software when mapping - we decide which is best for you. Obviously if your maf is knackered then mafless is appealing

ESL supplied fitted and mapped is £550 from me as per our text conversation yesterday Jimmy An additional £50 if done on the dyno to cover some of the dyno hire charges.

ALS and launch will be available next year as additional cost options as they are on simtek.

jimmyinrugby

iTrader: (1)

How about 400 at my house,no dyno...Will even put a nice shiney sticker on my car Good PR chap !

*_Ste_*

Thought you can't just swap ECUs in a turbo 2000, something to do with them being linked to the ignition for starting the car? Otherwise i'd just swap to an STi ECU lol.

That dyno graph was pretty impressive and close to the specs i'll be running come map time, just need some injectors and to swap the turbo so hopefully not long now

jimmyinrugby

iTrader: (1)

I think Darren has passed out with my proposal lol

Andy Stevens

It is not £600. It is £295+VAT (354) for the hardware, or, if Dunc fits and maps it, £550.

The Simtek, fitted and mapped, is, for example, on JGMs site, 895+VAT (1074).

Clearly, the difference is not £200.

The big plus with ESL is Active knock control, Diagnostic Control codes, Switchable MAF/MAFless, factory compensations and closed loop idle and cruise over most aftermarkets. It is also live mappable unlike openecu.

It is a massive step up from the old system and has had positive feedback from everyone who has used it so far.

Andy Stevens

Fair point, UK and Euro cars do have an immobiliser. When ESL converts them to aftermarket it can be disabled on request. I suspect an ESL converted 97/8 ECU will; command strong money, if you can persuade an owner to part with one!

Andy Stevens

No problem mate, glad you are liking it. I gave myself a lie in

*_Ste_*

So would it be possible to make a standalone ECU by getting another UK ECU, have the ESL fitted to that and keep the original to put back in the car if i was to sell it?

If so that's decided it for me

Andy Stevens

Yes you can. Any 8S ECU will do, or a 9S from a Euro GT. You can use a Jap motherboard, but you have to swap cam, crank and fuel pump pins, which isn't a big problem but isn't really necessary as an ebay 8S is peanuts.

If you mod the car significantly though it won't run properly on the stock ECU (obvious I guess, apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs).

The ESL ECU will support any level of mod as you can go mafless and fit any MAP sensors, injectors and turbo you want, so the sky is the limit really, just don't expect to put the old standard ECU in and expect it to run

*_Ste_*

It's just bolt on stuff: Induction kit, full decat and tubular manifold were on the car when i bought it but pretty sure the previous owner didn't get it mapped though.

I also have a newage top mount, Walboro fuel pump, FPR, VF28, lightweight pulleys and lightweight flywheel waiting to go on so it's easy to put back to near standard if i ever decide to sell it.


Better get looking for injectors and a spare ECU now

53

iTrader: (41)

It would need to be to make me think about considering one The good thing about the Apexi is you can buy them for £400-£450 and guarantee to recoup that come sale time, so only paying £200 for mapping effectively. They're relatively simple to set up and run and the commander is a nice tool to monitor the realtime running of the car.

As good as the new ESL is, and I am sure it's very good looking at the spec list, resale of ESL is unlikely to recoup £350 on resale given what they are and it's more simple predecessors. Therefore there is a slight price/interface benefit opting for the Apexi This may change however given the new setup and after people become familiar with it.

It's certainly something I would have considered in it's new guise, although Apexi bargains atm made it a simple decision for me.

Andy Stevens

Simple economics dictate that you won't get £350 for a secondhand ESL as you can buy it new for that, the same as you won't get £800 for a secondhand Apexi PFC as you can land a new one in this country from Nengun for that.

Your argument isn't valid as you keep comparing secondhand Apexis to new ESLs.

If you want to compare apples with apples, a new ESL costs less than half a new Apexi but has a much stronger feature list.

When you add on the fact you need to add a boost controller for 3D boost control on the Apexi, the ESL is a third of the price, and still offers mafless, twin maps, etc, etc.

If you still think there is a "slight price/interface benefit" to fitting an Apexi over an ESL then you are entitled to your opinion, but I doubt it's one many will share.

Andy Stevens

If it runs ok on the stock ECU now it will do the same if you want to revert and you don't mod further. Just save the MAF and old injectors so you can bolt them back on when you are done.

jimmyinrugby

iTrader: (1)

Andy..Or anyone who knows...
Duncan is doing my 97 import on Friday,but my car is running very lean,found out it was the maff thing,so did a swap and it ran perfect,got another maff for it,well two to be honest and I broke both of those,then today I got one in the post today but makes my car splutter and that one is fu£ked,so the question is...Can he map it all and stop it running lean with my knackered maff on there at the moment or do I need to borrow a working one for the day so he sets it up right,plus what goes in it's place when it runs maffless?...Cheers
O,and what does all this mean....


MAF or MAFless switching? Closed Loop knock control? Closed loop idle and cruise? Twin maps? 3D boost control? Factory drive quality and compensations out of the box? Diagnostic control codes?

Stealth

iTrader: (4)

How many more times Jimmy........ Yes the map will stop the car from running Lean.... a remap on this ECU is a custom set of parameters that match your car EXACTLY to get the best out of it.... Like going to a tailor and having a custom made suit.... will fit you perfectly to the inch!

If you are mapping for MAF less why would you need a working MAF? just disconnect the plug or replace the pipe, one way or another it needs to be taken out of the equation to get the perfect map. (you can't map for a MAF and then run it MAF less, it doesn't work like that)

In short, the New ESL board is by far and away the best option for your car, band for buck nothing is close.... And all this talk of resell is just pointless rubbish.