stiggy wiggy

iTrader: (1)

When I bought my 97 type-r I inherited it with the following spec

Turbo "upgrade" TD05-20G internals
Venom 550 injectors
Power fc
Standard tmic
Full 3" Decat exhaust
Tubular exhaust manifold
K&N panel filter
Forge dump valve

After various trials, tribulations and research on here the venom injectors have been binned for some modded standard injectors from Rich @ FB Tuning (570cc now I think) as well as the forge dump valve for a standard item.

An avc-r was added then mapped by Rich at 1.4bar.

Full boost comes in at around 4000rpm according to Rich's laptop but on the road it feels / looks more like 4500-5000rpm which is not ideal for a road car.

The turbo doesn't look like all the other 20g's I've seen on here so im a bit dubious of this but it doesn't smoke or make any weird noises and Rich reckons it probably is by the size and spool of it, but theres one hole in the up-pipe flange that doesnt marry up with the turbo flange (pic below), could this be leaking (no audible sign of this).

Theres quite a substantial blow from the flexi joint in the centre pipe so that needs replacing and probably isn't helping things and also the downpipe looks like a divorced type with what looks like a 2.5" outlet straight into a 3" pipe from the turbo exhaust housing (pics below) would I be better off with a bellmouth style down pipe to improve flow.

So after doing a lot of searching on here I'm thinking of ditching the unknown make tubular manifold for a ported & wrapped standard manifold with Harvey up-pipe, new centre pipe and possibly a bellmouth downpipe with a map tweak to hopefully bring the spool lower down the rev range.

I don't have the funds for a different smaller turbo so that's gotta stay put unless someones after a swap of somekind.

Pics to follow shortly
Opinions? Thanks

stiggy wiggy

iTrader: (1)

Divorced downpipe with 2.5"-3" outlet (restricting flow?)
[IMG][/IMG]

Up-pipe and turbo flange holes not aligned
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

wr pete

iTrader: (1)

The extra hole on the up pipe flange is for a support bracket that fastens to the engine. you can see it in this pic.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

You will improve it but issue may well be the turbo.

Also worth checking wastegate is seated properly and no cracks in exhaust housing.

Simon

sandyRS16i

iTrader: (13)

You will be limited in terms of what you can run if its an OE TMIC from the car, really need an STI 8 TMIC & bigger scoop/undertray or a FMIC.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Thats a big turbo for your car, go back to something smaller, replace any crappy flexi jointed stuff with decent parts (word to describe flexi joined stuff, starts with an s and ends in hit )
Try a smaller turbo like a vf 34/35/43 or 48, plus if your on standard internals you dont want to be pushing too much power, cap it at 350bhp and watch the torque levels if you want your gearbox to last.
One major misconception is that you need alot of power to have fun, totally false, you just need a well set up car to have fun

Tony

Neil..

iTrader: (35)

As Tony says.

I put a vf35 onto a V6 type R that had a 20g on it. Totally transformed the car from a decent powered laggy car, into a lower powered, but nice responsive car that was a pleasure to drive.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

If it were me, I'd be discussing this with harvey, on here, Harvey Smith.

He works out of Darlington and is a guy who KNOWS turbos, up-pipes, headers etc, and the effects of different combinations.

Why not PM or e-mail him your setup, and ask his recommendations?

He tuned mine and it's amazing to drive. OK, 2.5 engine, but it WILL drive about everywhere happily in 5th, then spools up and power comes in VERY early.

KAS35RSTI

iTrader: (73)

If its a ebay 20G or one of those cheap ones it will be no good at all.

stiggy wiggy

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the replies, what's the most responsive turbo for around 350bhp area? And what's peoples thoughts on the downpipe that's fitted at the mo?

Thanks

KAS35RSTI

iTrader: (73)

Post Number 6

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Two issues

1) Is it a genuine 20G - loads of inferior copies about.
2) A 20G is going to be significantly more laggy than the size of turbo that is optimal for your spec e.g. a VF34/35. If you can afford it, try an SC36 billet from scooby clinic.

99greenwagon

iTrader: (39)

im going to use a vf48 which is also another option.

rickya

iTrader: (18)

All good advice.
Those unknown headers can also affect spool significantly so a change to Harvey's items will be a good start. As well as changing up pipe, downpipe & sorting exhaust. After that lot if it still doesn't spool early enough I would look to change to a smaller turbo as suggested.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Just as Simon says at Post #4.

The spool on your car is VERY late. I have one of my own TD05 20Gs making 1 bar in 4th gear at 3140 RPM. If we cannot get your spool down to 3500 RPM there is something far wrong.
In your position I would try to make the best use of what you already have. Start by checking the actuator setting and that the penny valve is properly seated. Check for air leaks in the system but if Richard has been working on your car he will already have checked for air leaks so specifically get him to check out the turbo as above.
At that point fit a set of ported headers and matched uppipe and providing your turbo is OK you will be very pleasantly surprised, if not, you need a replacement turbo such as an 18G, VF35 or similar. Hopefully changing the headers and uppipe will make a great improvement.

stiggy wiggy

iTrader: (1)

Just done some 4th & 5th gear runs to get some rough figures of when I'm reaching 1.0bar and full boost using my avc-r pause button (left arrow)

4th gear
1.01bar @ 3854rpm
1.40bar @ 4419rpm

5th gear
1.01bar @ 3503rpm
1.40bar @ 3889rpm

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Like I said above, if you cannot get 1 bar in 4th by 3500 rpm there is something wrong and the most likely culprit is headers and uppipe.

stiggy wiggy

iTrader: (1)

Little update,
finally got some funds so brought a bellmouth downpipe and a new centre section.
Upon removing the old downpipe I thought I'd better check the wastegate flap is proper sealed (advice from Simon & Harvey) and there's movement of 1-2mm which I'm guessing is contributing to my late boost.

Ive got a forge actuator on it so is it a case of winding it in until there's no play on the flap? (I won't go mad)

Will I need a remap going from my original downpipe pic above (slightly bellmouthed not divorced) to a full on big bellmouth and possibly winding the actuator in a turn or two?

Thanks

stiggy wiggy

iTrader: (1)

I've also brought a set of 2nd hand oem headers that have been ported but they do look slightly crude in the fact the porting is rather abrupt and not tapered further down the headers if u know what I mean, I'll give this a go when I've got time.

I'm also eventually gonna get a Harvey up-pipe and wrap the lot then get Rich @ FB Tuning to check / tweak the map.

stiggy wiggy

iTrader: (1)

Anyone confirm my questions in post 18 please?

Thanks

stiggy wiggy

iTrader: (1)

Right I've properly tensioned the actuator as per harveys instructions on an old thread I found:

"There is a possibility your wastegate is not remaining fully closed as boost increases, if it is not properly pre-tensioned. Normally I would set the wastegate pre-tension using a hand pump to adjust the actuator pressure but that is obviously not available to you.*
Firstly you must determine that the wastegate actuator arm is adjustable. This is done with a turn buckle on the arm connecting the actuator to the penny valve lever on top of your turbo. If there is no turn buckle but the arm is threaded then you can adjust the length of the arm by screwing on or off, a few turns of the lug end which locates over the pin on the penny valve flap lever. The lug end is located with a circlip or split pin or both.*
Obviously shorten the actuator rod to shut the penny valve or to increase tension.*
Disconnect the lug end and put the penny valve lever to fully closed. Then adjust the length of the wastegate actuator rod so that only one quarter of the pin diameter on the penny valve lever shows. This means you now have to pull the rod out to the equivalent of three quarters of the diameter of the penny valve lever pin to slot it over the pin.*
Your wastegate actuator is now tensioned."

To get it tensioned correctly took 7 full turns as it was barely under any tension if at all,

Is a remap needed now coz of this and the slightly different downpipe on it now?

Thanks

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Where does it start to spool now?

And yes, I'd have the map tweaked.

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

Best thing you can do to a 20g to improve spool is fit a 2.5 in the car!

Get yourself a VF series turbo like Neil says.

stiggy wiggy

iTrader: (1)

It's off the road at the mo as I'm painting the front bumper, I've wrapped the downpipe and I've gotta put that and the centre pipe on later, was wondering if I could getaway with waiting till I put the oem ported manifold and Harvey up pipe on before getting it mapped.

New turbo is not an option due to lack of funds I'm afraid.

Since I've got an unknown turbo what will Harvey need to know to determine which up pipe I need?

stiggy wiggy

iTrader: (1)

Anybody know off the top of their heads the internal diameters of the ends of one of harveys suitable matched up-pipes from a standard manifold to my "20g" turbo would be?

I'll send Harvey an email but he gets like a million a day, lol

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Your email is answered.
Several issues potentially and I have explained the action I would take and offered you two options.