ianbott

1998 UK EJ20 turbo motor installed in a VW based beach buggy.

Took the buggy down the strip a couple times at Santa pod a couple weeks ago and the motor developed a knock from the bottom end.

Oil pressure light never came on, oil temp max was 116 degrees and max water temp was 103 degrees.

Stripped the motor down and found one of the main bearings totally shot and very mis shaped, this has in turn trashed the crank and that particular con rod.

Am now in two minds what to do, whether to replace or rebuild ???????????

Anyway some pics for you guys :-)

bigsinky

ouch. mangled. taking her down the strip will do it. especially in older engines. 2 choices chum. find a cheap ej20 replacement and dont drag again or go for a forged build with brand new parts. is the block salvageable? does it need skimmed. what about the heads? are the heads warped? the other bits i would just scrap (crank, pistons, rod, shells) dont forget a new oil pump and modine is a must. just depends on how much you want to spend on a toy.

ianbott

Hi mate, the heads got dropped off at the machine shop today for a clean and polish, there was no signs of distortion or anything bad so pretty sure it's confined to the bearings/conrod/crank.

The crank is deffo scrap but the block and pistons are in great condition with the original hone marks on the cylinder bores so a re build is deffo possible but the cost will be so high for nothing more than a standard engine so an upgrade is deffo on the cards as i am polanning on dragging the car again

Been pricing bits up and i'm looking at around £300 for rods and crank then £150 for the main and big end bearings, then there's modine, sump, oil pump, head gaskets and timing belt. All in closing in on a grand
Get a brand new short block for £1500.

Decission decissions, i'll keep you guys posted though whatever i do.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

£300 for rods and crank? The crank alone (for a new one) will set you back that, a new twin scroll crank is circa 450 quid, rods are about 55 each if you look (new age sti ones new), you then have a choice on bearings, most seem to go for acl race bearings, so all in all your looking at more like 1500 quid, you can go for a modified standard oil pump which isnt too far off the price of a standard unit or just go totally uprated one which is a little more expensive.... just dont buy 2nd hand cranks or ones that have been reground unless you want to rebuild again

Tony

bigsinky

300 for 4 x rods and a crank. damn thats cheap. I take it they are oem items? dont forget about all the wee bits as well(as it's sometimes useful to replace them while the engine is stripped i.e. front and rear oil seals, piston rings et al.) if you are doing the work yourself then its a cheap option to get you up and running again. take a look at APi or EngineTuner. they do good deals on forged builds.

bigsinky

tony, i wish my crank only cost £450

ianbott

When I say £300 that's referring to a price I have been given for a guaranteed good second hand crank and second hand rod. Not even thought about new prices.

I've been offered an STi 8 bottom end from a 47,000 mile 2007 UK car for £800, not bad I don't think?

bigsinky

have never liked 2nd hand cranks. IMHO too risky even with a guarantee. not sure your heads will fit the bottom end. Tony will know.

scouser321

iTrader: (1)

sh!tty situation to be in.

sounds like you have the knowledge to sort this out yourself though. The average person on here would be looking at a good few grand for a rebuild.

best of luck

99greenwagon

iTrader: (39)

i had the same mate,im in the process of having an sti 8 build and know how you feel,i opted for the sti 8 as its a stronger,newer engine to start with.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

There is a saying, do it once, do it right (or is that the other way round? ) anyway a 2007 sti engine is a 2.5ltr and its definately not an STI8 (they didnt make an sti 8 to start with ) so straight away where are you going here???

Tony

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

i would steer clear of a second hand crank unless you can get it checked by a known subaru engine builder for condition. It will cost you a few quid to have them do it but well worth it.

I am using a second hand crank in my next engine build that is progressing at the moment and Paul Finch has checked this out (used to build F1 engines so really knows his stuff and now a reknowned subaru engine builder). Worth doing IMO.

ianbott

Hmmmm just quoting what I got told, to be honest I'm not that up on the different Subaru engines which is why I'd prefer to stay clear of the re building route.
I think i may of mis quoted though to be honest, think it may of been a 2004 STi block I was offered.
You sure they never made and STi version 8?

Cheers Ian.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

100% positive they didnt make an STI 8
They binned versions after the 6, no new age has a version and here is why.

2001, Those nice japanese people produced the MY01 JDM Spec STi producing 280ps, runs a vf30 turbocharger, mapped for 100 ron fuel, 8k red line etc.
2002 JDM was a similar spec car.
EU/UK got their first STI's, these ran a vf35 turbo and produced 265ps on 98 ron fuel, 7.5k red line and some mechanical differences over the JDM spec car.
2003, facelift for both the EU/UK and JDM cars, and this is where it really gets complicated...
Engines for the eu/uk are similar to what the previous car had, same power/turbo etc, JDM cars had a complete overhaul, new engines (twin scroll) new internal components etc, different spec car (lots more extra's) uprated components (a-dccd was available for the first time on these cars), totally different spec.

2004 saw the introduction of the US spec car, again a different spec, 2.5ltr etc, differs from the UK/EU/JDM cars, now you have 3 different engines on the same model year!

IF (and its a big if) they kept using the versions, it would only apply to japanese domestic market cars and not to any other market, you ask for a version 8 UK car and people refer to that as a 2003-2004 car, it would have been a 2002 jdm bug, an sti 9 which is commonly referred to by some as a 2005 uk would have been a 2003 jdm, parts differ quite a bit between these models, then the version 10 would have been a 2.5ltr uk/eu but a 2ltr 2005 jdm.

Hope that explains it its always best to stick with model year (MYxx) and domestic market (UK/US/JDM)

Tony

ianbott

Thanks for that Tony, great explanation :-)
So it's a general misconception about the version numbers.
Thanks again for your detailed explanation.

bigsinky

ahhh the subaru wikipedia strikes again. you do have a lot of useful subaru info running around that head of yours Tony

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Is the engine reversed ( like a beetle ) ?

Did you do any work on the sump ?

dunx

P.S. V7 is a shorthand for a bugeye, V8 for a blobeye... even if it does annoy Tony

ianbott

Hi mate, yeah the engine hangs out the back like a beetle, with the whole lot weighing around 600kg :-)
As for the sump there has been no work carried out, some people shorten them to aid ground clearance but I have plenty :-).

dunx

iTrader: (3)

But under acceleration all the oil heads away from the pick-up...

dunx

djandyg

iTrader: (2)

out of interest....

did they make some revisions on the newage ej20's....as classics seem to be a lot more prone to the shells going than the newage. Someone once told me they thought they'd made the oil galleries slightly bigger?

Is it generally a case of new crank, new rod and shells when the bottom ends go on these?

ianbott

Bit more info after looking at my block and speaking to a local guy who does a lot with subaru's, it looks like my bottom end has been replaced at some point, the heads and manifold I have been told are from a phase 1.5 engine but the bottom end is a phase 2.
This doesn't really mean a lot just though I'd mention it.

Dunx you make a good point about the oil surging away from the pick up especially when my front wheels go 12" in the air lol. Maybe it's worth me re engineering the pick up when I put it all back together.

Djandyg from what I can see if I rebuild I will need the following.
Crank
Con rods
Main bearings
Big end bearings
Oil pump
Oil cooler (modine)
Sump
Head gaskets
Timing belt
Not sure if there is anything else but I'm sure someone will let us know.

djandyg

iTrader: (2)

why will you need a new sump?

ianbott

Have you ever seen inside a subaru sump?
If so you'll know there are a million places for any metal debris to hide so for the cost of a replacement sump the peace of mind is there

bigsinky

you might want to think about a baffle plate in the sump if you are worried about oil starvation, even better a oil breather system. a fully baffled sump will add greatly to your expense. a baffle plate is about half the price. cosworth do some nice baffle plates the fit inside a subaru sump.

baffled sump

cosworth baffle plate

djandyg

iTrader: (2)

ah i see fair enough.

ianbott

Thought you guys might want to see a few pics of the buggy the engine is in









Cheers Ian.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

I've been around a ( Long ! ) while, and played with a few "toys" over the years... Once you mentioned what it was in

dunx

P.S. Not road legal ?

Shaun

Tony,
Where the hell are you getting brand new nitrided twin scroll cranks from for £450..... the local "fence"?! lol

ianbott

Hi Dunx, will be road legal :-) not much stopping me finishing it apart from the obvious engine problems lol.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

A pedestrian friendly belt cover and exhaust guard...

dunx