ivor.bigun

Hi there,

I am looking at my Prodrive ECU and trying to confirm its authenticity. The casing looks correct with STi and Prodrive stickers.

The ECU apparently came from an RB5 Prodrive. I have a my99 UK wagon.

When I did some logging with ECU explorer the Prodrive is listed as a 'MY99/00 Impreza 2.0 Turbo/WRX/GT (EURO) [AE801]' - Is this right? Has anyone else with a Prodrive ECU connected up to ECUExplorer.

The boost pressure only occasionally gets over 1bar, and only then seems to be when I get back on the gas after some coasting and is more like 0.95 max most of the time.

I'm looking at some acceleration run data at the moment. Does anyone have any good spreadsheets to help analyse this a bit. It did feel a bit quicker by the butt dyno, but not night and day.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!!

c_maguire

The identification when queried is as you see it in ecuExplorer, 99/00 WRX etc.
To look at the ecu will have a purple sticker with STI on it as you say, because Prodrive used a batch of donor STI ecus that they re-mapped for their cars. Assuming the ecu has not been re-mapped again since it was part of a Prodrive performance pack (which is possible) then it will be running 16psi of boost as opposed to the 13psi of the standard car.

ivor.bigun

Thanks for the confirmation on ECUExplorer's description. The outside of the box does look spot on. It is the boost that is worrying me.

I'll take some more logs tomorrow and see if the boost is a bit higher - It's the boost that is concerning me that is not a real ppp ecu.

By the way I have STi V5/6 intercooler with STi silicon bottom hose, Ninja Sports cat downpipe and Hayward Scott decat centre and backbox. I thought this should be close enough to the PPP spec!

Could the pill I've read a bit about affect this lack of extra boost?

Thanks again!

midnight

iTrader: (10)

I recently bought a MY2000 uk impreza with a prodrive ecu fitted,it definatley felt more responsive than my last 99uk model,however it did not boost to 1.1 bar.After checking all the pipework,etc found that the wastegate arm had seized,i slackened it off then turned it in a few turns and car boosted much more strongly.

Splitpin

There is unfortunately nothing stopping someone swapping the top of the PPP ECU case onto a standard printed circuit board. Doesn't mean that it's happened in your situation but it's possible.

I've never examined a PPP ECU in detailso cannot tell you for certain whether the description ECU Explorer gives is correct. However, from a technical point of view, ECU Explorer is basing that "AE801" ID on a five byte code contained within the firmware. It does seem very odd that a genuine PPP ECU would contain the same firmware code ID as an AE801. FHI/JECS use different firmware IDs for all the other 99-00 ECUs so it would be unusual (although not impossible) to see one code being "shared" among two separate code or map versions.

That sounds more like a standard AE801 than a PPP ECU, which should hold around 1.1 bar under full throttle, provided the car is otherwise working properly.

It feels quicker in comparison to what, exactly? If you took out a (green label) AE802, you would expect an 801 to feel subjectively a bit quicker. If you took out an 801 or 800, and your car now feels quicker, then chances are it *is* a PPP ECU.

As above I've never had a PPP ECU in my hand and thus don't know exactly what numbers to expect. However, I can suggest a simple test you can do with ECU Explorer that will give you a lot of confidence whether you have an AE801 ECU or not (and if you don't, by definition, you will have a PPP unit).

Start ECUExplorer's ECUQuery function and enter 2105061 in the Start Address box, and 2105076 as the Stop Address, then hit Query. It'll give you a file save dialog box - just give the file a random name. Then watch the numbers in the upper part of the main window. You should see something like this:

You are looking at data values in the middle of the boost target map. If you see it exactly as it is there, B8 eight times, and another eight B0's you have a standard AE801 ECU (in a PPP case). If you see a different series of hex numbers - in particular ones that begin with a C, i.e. C1, C3, C5 etc, you have a PPP unit.

ivor.bigun

That is awesome info Splitpin - thank you!

My ECUQuery:
201EE5 - BA BA BA BA BA BA BA BA B3 B3 B3 B3 B3 B3 B3 B3

So not as high as your guess, but different from an AE801 nonetheless. So fair amount of confidence it is a PPP - If anyone else has a PPP and fancies plugging it into ECUexplorer that would be superb to be able to compare for sure.

My old ECU was an AE800 - and driving it today it did feel quicker still (but spending £200 can do funny things to butt dynos!). Last night was flat out straights at higher revs, but the difference when driving today was most noticeable at far lower revs. I did a few more 4th gear power runs today to see how they compare to my old ones with a bit more certainty - but haven't studied the numbers yet.

Boost is maxing out at 0.95 at 5200 rpm with a steady 80.78 wastegate duty. So I'm still not completely happy about that. I might have a fiddle with the wastegate and the vacuum pipes at the weekend.

Thanks again

Splitpin

Alrighty. 0xBA = a boost target of 0.98 bar, considerably lower than practical experience suggests the PPP ECU runs, but if that's what it is, that's what it is. The one thing you can be certain of given what you've seen is that you don't have a bog standard AE801 ECU either, and, as such, as you say you can be reasonably confident that it is what it says on the tin.

Given that this is the target, in practice there's little point you spending too much time playing with the wastegate and pipes. In practice you will usually find peak boost runs a fraction below the target, so given that we know the target is 0.98, everything as far as we can see is running correctly, albeit not delivering as much boost as you'd like.

ivor.bigun

Having a closer look at my private test track runs 60-100mph 4th gear runs 3250-5450rpm

old AE800 Average 11.4 seconds (4 runs)
new PPP? AE801 Average 10.1 (5 runs)

Actually that is looking a pretty good improvement and I can be pretty sure that I have got the genuine thing. Do note stats fans that it would be faster to do some 3rd gear 60-100s, but I also took a couple of 120 runs too (but kept running out of space!) - but no difference between the two (another 7.1 seconds) - I guess the TD04 is running out of puff a bit by then.

Still a bit puzzled by the 0.98bar target boost - even if that is what is says on the map

Thanks again Splitpin

midnight

iTrader: (10)

Dont know if this is any help to you mate,i know figures can vary between individual cars ,but this might give you a bit more info.


http://www.prodrive.com/up/99MY%20Impreza%20PPP.pdf

ivor.bigun

Hi, I'd spotted that pdf, but I'm not convinced I can be accurate to within 0.2 seconds like a lot of those difference are! Also most of those readings on the pdf are really quite low rpm ranges which is a bit odd (I guess they are 'real world' driving). But reassuringly the difference in 4th gear 60-80mph is only 0.1s (way less than my 60-100 differences in 4th) - so I may try and see if many of my logs start even slower than 60 (some definitely do)

Will be interesting to see how my car stacks up to theirs. I don't have any decent program to help me figure out the timings - so it is carefully working out spreadsheets that is needed - and can only be done in small doses, but will be good to see!!

I am tempted to fiddle with the waste gate after your earlier post I'm not sure if the ECU sets the wastegate duty as to what should happen or whether it looks at the boooost and sets the wastegate accordingly?

Also Midnight, how did you measure your boost you mentioned in your earlier post?

Splitpin

Individual performance figures will vary from car to car but the data in the ECU firmware shouldn't - which is why the boost pressures and ROM target values Ivor looked up seem a little "out" compared with the notionally "correct" view of the PPP ECU. As he's already asked, if someone else with a PPP could do the same test, I suspect something interesting would turn up.

The main strength of the PPP tune is that it broadens the torque curve significantly over the standard one and thus the car can go quick without needing to be thrashed. Hence the relatively low engine speeds reported in the numbers you're looking at. Indeed there's no point redlining them as the boost tapers quite a bit above about 5000rpm. You're better off shifting shorter and using the midrange.

I know fiddling's tempting, but right now, there's no point, you're more likely to make things worse than the reverse. The figures you are seeing in your logs are totally appropriate for the boost target the ECU is setting and thus there is nothing at all to indicate there's anything "wrong" under the bonnet.

A held boost of 0.95bar or so is consistent with a programmed target of 0.98 in current air temperatures and on an ECU without any temp compensation - a feature UK classics lack. You will find you'll get slightly more if you drive it on a very cold day, and slightly less on a warmer one.

You won't make it go significantly higher by altering the actuator arm - the only thing you eventually will cause by doing this is transient spiking/fluctuation by throwing the boost error correction system out of calibration.

Both of the above and more. It starts from a "what should happen" base map and then error corrects on an ongoing basis depending how far away the actual pressure level is from the target it wants to keep to. That's why you won't get more than a couple of hundredths of a bar extra out of it by fiddling with the actuator - the ECU will compensate by reducing the boost solenoid duty cycle to bring the pressure back down within target.

If you want significantly more boost out of your car as things stand you'll either have to use an external controller or have it remapped. I wouldn't recommend the former as the PPP tune isn't overly known to be tolerant to further modifications while maintaining a safety margin. As C. Maguire suggested earlier, you may have an ECU in a PPP case that actually has a non-PPP firmware on it. Sounds a bit counter-logical for a custom map to have such a low boost target on it, but stranger things have happened. Buying secondhand there's always a risk that things might not be as claimed.

Is the part number on the top of the ECU can A18-000-D1X, by the way?

ivor.bigun

Thanks again Splitpin for an amazing reply. I won't be fiddling with the wastegate at the weekend

The numbers on the STi sticker on the ECU are 1001056110 A18-000-D1X (which I'd read a couple of time should be genuine)

viper1982

MY QUERY PPP ECU IS

BA BA BA BA BA BA BA BA B3 B3 B3 B3 B3 B3 B3 B3

viper1982