Remap - Open Source
18 August 2009, 03:20 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Worcs.
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Remap - Open Source
Have finally got the new exhaust system fitted to the car....Now want a remap...
Can anyone tell me what the diff is between an Open Source map and an Ecutek with Licence map?
Help please......
Can anyone tell me what the diff is between an Open Source map and an Ecutek with Licence map?
Help please......
18 August 2009, 03:31 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EcuTeK are the company who originally worked out the concept of reflashing the Subaru ECUs. It costs money for a would-be EcuTeK tuner to buy the kit and licence - and as you know, each ECU must then be licensed, which carries an additional charge.
In practical terms? The EcuTeK remap will most likely be done by someone who knows what he or she is doing. The open sauce one might be done by someone who knows what they're playing at, but because literally anyone can download the software for free and buy the hardware for £20, there are all sorts of people doing it. Some may know their onions, others may not.
(stands back and waits)
In practical terms? The EcuTeK remap will most likely be done by someone who knows what he or she is doing. The open sauce one might be done by someone who knows what they're playing at, but because literally anyone can download the software for free and buy the hardware for £20, there are all sorts of people doing it. Some may know their onions, others may not.
(stands back and waits)
18 August 2009, 03:39 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Worcs.
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The scoobie tuners round my way offers both options, so i assume he knows what he is doing, he is happy to do a EcuTek with the licence, but said the end result will be the same on both.....i dont see any reason why he would give me any cloth over this, as i was ok with paying the extra if i had to.........having said that, times are tight and an extra 200 quid in my pocket would always be nice!
18 August 2009, 03:42 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oz
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I would stick with EcuTek, the open source is still in beta form and has a lot of bugs, its even known to wipe Ecu's which then need sent off for resets and doesnt always work.
I know a tunning company here(Northern Ireland) who use it with no probs but spent near 1 year using it on there own car before offering to customers.
I know a tunning company here(Northern Ireland) who use it with no probs but spent near 1 year using it on there own car before offering to customers.
18 August 2009, 09:46 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Spec C - 12.5 @ 110(340/350)
Posts: 2,314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I would stick with EcuTek, the open source is still in beta form and has a lot of bugs, its even known to wipe Ecu's which then need sent off for resets and doesnt always work.
I know a tunning company here(Northern Ireland) who use it with no probs but spent near 1 year using it on there own car before offering to customers.
I know a tunning company here(Northern Ireland) who use it with no probs but spent near 1 year using it on there own car before offering to customers.
18 August 2009, 10:27 PM
#7
EcuTeK are the company who originally worked out the concept of reflashing the Subaru ECUs. It costs money for a would-be EcuTeK tuner to buy the kit and licence - and as you know, each ECU must then be licensed, which carries an additional charge.
In practical terms? The EcuTeK remap will most likely be done by someone who knows what he or she is doing. The open sauce one might be done by someone who knows what they're playing at, but because literally anyone can download the software for free and buy the hardware for £20, there are all sorts of people doing it. Some may know their onions, others may not.
(stands back and waits)
In practical terms? The EcuTeK remap will most likely be done by someone who knows what he or she is doing. The open sauce one might be done by someone who knows what they're playing at, but because literally anyone can download the software for free and buy the hardware for £20, there are all sorts of people doing it. Some may know their onions, others may not.
(stands back and waits)
Trending Topics
18 August 2009, 10:32 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Spec C - 12.5 @ 110(340/350)
Posts: 2,314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tactrix 2.0 cable, WB02, and Knock Cans(I use KA Pro), probably best part of £500, never mind the laptop. Not to mention the 100's of hours I've put into researching/testing on my own cars.
18 August 2009, 10:35 PM
#9
18 August 2009, 10:46 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Spec C - 12.5 @ 110(340/350)
Posts: 2,314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The two cars I've been working on so far are an 05 WRX and a 01 JDM STi. The WRX(PPP exhaust) is running a very safe map, as it my dads car, it is running 270/300 bhp/lbft on road dyno software, the STi is running around 330/320 bhp/lbft. Just fitted a 70mm APS CAI today, rescaled it tonight ready for new injectors, turbo(MD321) and manifold next week, aiming for around 410-420 bhp, all on OS.
Just tweaked my Spec C as it was ECUTek'd prior to me getting into OS. I plan to put some sort of hybrid Twin Scroll in the future and tune to suit.
Just tweaked my Spec C as it was ECUTek'd prior to me getting into OS. I plan to put some sort of hybrid Twin Scroll in the future and tune to suit.
19 August 2009, 01:53 AM
#11
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: "In a distant land,far far away!"
Posts: 1,244
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Im running ecutek on my wrx-310/290,but im not 100% happy with the way its running.
Have been offered the option of open source mapping which id like to try out,however have been told that the software may be locked,once you use ecutek software...can you shed any light on this?
Cheers
Have been offered the option of open source mapping which id like to try out,however have been told that the software may be locked,once you use ecutek software...can you shed any light on this?
Cheers
19 August 2009, 10:01 AM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
19 August 2009, 11:07 AM
#13
Tbh the software is less important than who actually uses it. Both can be used to good effect in the right hands.
IMHO Find a recommended mapper such as Simon JGM www.jollygreenmonster.co.uk
and use the recommended software.As a past user of Open source it will be marginally cheaper purchasing an OS remap from a tuner, but depending on how you and your car evolve it could be more expensive in the long run.
If your OS mapper runs out of talent, or indeed he/she turns out to be rubbish from the start, unless you are proposing to go it alone, you are far more restricted for choice having OS. You may find yourself plumping for Ecutek anyway at another £550 or whatever it goes for these days.
As I see it, using Ecutek you have access to a credible industry recognised product with support by more than just a 'tuner' and a lap top. If it does go wrong for whatever reason you have access to a number of Ecutek mappers to pic up the pieces yet at a fraction of the initial cost.
It's also the best you can get if you are not opting for the ProdrivePP package. Resale wise Ecutek is going to be a stronger selling point purely because people who are perhaps less mod focused trust established brands they can see.
In addition, your ECU can be sold on to another scooby owner for the value of the license if you were to upgrade to something mafless for example.HTH
19 August 2009, 02:37 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good words from 53WRX, and further up. The bottom line is that the ability of the tuner is the important bit. The EcuTeK/open source thing is nothing more than the tools used to edit the ROM file and get it on to the ECU. If a good tuner uses both and is happy with the quality of the OS tools, the reasons to pay extra for a TeK licence are largely as '53 mentions re. "established" brand and subsequent portability/resale.
The irony is that the developer of what became EcuTeK was posting on an open source board during the early part of his research. However you can't exactly blame him for ultimately going commercial and wanting a return on the investment he put into working it all out. The second irony is that as "established and developed" as the EcuTeK product is, it's still not perfect - and is buggy in a couple of areas. Genuine competition from an alternative may eventually encourage them to either improve the product or drop the licensing fees (or both) so ultimately the consumer should benefit.
So that's you. Like I said up top, some may know their onions, some not. A quick scan down the RomRaider forums indicates that there are more than a few who don't know what knock is, let alone that you need to listen for it, but yet are still offering to map other people's engines - most often with files and bits of code that they've got from someone else that they don't themselves understand.
Similarly the fact that there are people selling "launch control" that is actually nothing more than a temporarily reduced rev limit tells you a lot. The one good thing about EcuTeK is that the financial outlay involved in going that route tends to dictate that the only people doing it will be professionals, in the best sense of the word.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing...
The only hardware you need, aside from the flash block connectors and laptop, to flash a pre-CAN Impreza is a bog standard ISO9141 K-line interface (don't even need the L-line) and a method of getting the high voltage programming supply into the correct pin of the OBD connector - a method which could be as simple as an inch and a half of wire and a switch. If you know a little bit of electronics you could build everything you need for considerably less than £20, and that includes paying a tenner for the OBD plug.
The irony is that the developer of what became EcuTeK was posting on an open source board during the early part of his research. However you can't exactly blame him for ultimately going commercial and wanting a return on the investment he put into working it all out. The second irony is that as "established and developed" as the EcuTeK product is, it's still not perfect - and is buggy in a couple of areas. Genuine competition from an alternative may eventually encourage them to either improve the product or drop the licensing fees (or both) so ultimately the consumer should benefit.
Similarly the fact that there are people selling "launch control" that is actually nothing more than a temporarily reduced rev limit tells you a lot. The one good thing about EcuTeK is that the financial outlay involved in going that route tends to dictate that the only people doing it will be professionals, in the best sense of the word.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing...
The only hardware you need, aside from the flash block connectors and laptop, to flash a pre-CAN Impreza is a bog standard ISO9141 K-line interface (don't even need the L-line) and a method of getting the high voltage programming supply into the correct pin of the OBD connector - a method which could be as simple as an inch and a half of wire and a switch. If you know a little bit of electronics you could build everything you need for considerably less than £20, and that includes paying a tenner for the OBD plug.
Last edited by Splitpin; 19 August 2009 at 03:00 PM.
19 August 2009, 07:18 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Spec C - 12.5 @ 110(340/350)
Posts: 2,314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
---
IMHO it's only a matter of time before a few tuners establish themselves as OS tuners in this country. The Mitsubishi scene is far more excepting of OS as a (more than) viable alternative to ECUTek.
22 August 2009, 10:08 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Worcs.
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys....Just had my remap done after fitting new fast flow downpipe and manafold pipes, tuner couldnt get past 260, said it should be hitting 280 min but the ecu wont accept changes to the boost and a few other changes....he is having it for a few days next week.
Any ideas to help him out?
Any ideas to help him out?
22 August 2009, 10:30 PM
#19
Hi guys....Just had my remap done after fitting new fast flow downpipe and manafold pipes, tuner couldnt get past 260, said it should be hitting 280 min but the ecu wont accept changes to the boost and a few other changes....he is having it for a few days next week.
Any ideas to help him out?
Any ideas to help him out?
who is it for start?
22 August 2009, 10:40 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys....Just had my remap done after fitting new fast flow downpipe and manafold pipes, tuner couldnt get past 260, said it should be hitting 280 min but the ecu wont accept changes to the boost and a few other changes....he is having it for a few days next week.
Any ideas to help him out?
Any ideas to help him out?
Is this being done via EcuTeK or open source tools?
22 August 2009, 10:52 PM
#23
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In which case, if the chap knows anything about the ECU ROM file structure (I imagine most mappers would have a good idea of the base offsets of the maps within the files), it wouldn't be difficult to force the changes he wants to make via a hex editor.
I'd make two points though. First of all, from what you're describing it sounds like your tuner has come up against a bug in the editing software and this is, at end of the day, one of the downsides of using the open source stuff. EcuTeK is a lot more mature, and if a bug does pop up, there's a commercial organisation and support structure there to deal with it.
The secondary point would be that the best place for him (or you) to be would be on the support forum of whatever software suite he's using. Far more likely to find someone there with specific experience of this issue.
I'd make two points though. First of all, from what you're describing it sounds like your tuner has come up against a bug in the editing software and this is, at end of the day, one of the downsides of using the open source stuff. EcuTeK is a lot more mature, and if a bug does pop up, there's a commercial organisation and support structure there to deal with it.
The secondary point would be that the best place for him (or you) to be would be on the support forum of whatever software suite he's using. Far more likely to find someone there with specific experience of this issue.
Last edited by Splitpin; 22 August 2009 at 10:53 PM.
22 August 2009, 11:03 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Worcs.
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be honest i still dont recon its a maping prob.......Very brief description of events..:-
Was running 260bhp
Fitted a BOV
Lost power big time.....
Profesh. refitted std bov......no diff. still down on power.
Again Professionally fitted new BOV (supersonic) and reset ecu.
tested at 239bhp.
Fitted highflow downpipe, manafold pipes, back to std airbox with fast flow filter.
Now tested at 260bhp (increase down to exhaust)
Still cant remap ecu.
Was running 260bhp
Fitted a BOV
Lost power big time.....
Profesh. refitted std bov......no diff. still down on power.
Again Professionally fitted new BOV (supersonic) and reset ecu.
tested at 239bhp.
Fitted highflow downpipe, manafold pipes, back to std airbox with fast flow filter.
Now tested at 260bhp (increase down to exhaust)
Still cant remap ecu.
22 August 2009, 11:04 PM
#26
22 August 2009, 11:16 PM
#29
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Worcs.
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im not to sure, but yes i think so....
Gona contact dvlc on mon and pay for all details of previous owners, if i can find the owner who had it maped and hence the origional mapper it may help.
Gona contact dvlc on mon and pay for all details of previous owners, if i can find the owner who had it maped and hence the origional mapper it may help.