l70byb.

iTrader: (5)

Has anyone got this turbo on a 2.5? if so would you recommend? and what sort of power you getting ?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I have an ST380 on a 2 litre and it spools very well. Produced 371 bhp at 1.4 bar on a 2 litre with only modest modifications. Very happy with it and clearly it would make a lot more with more boost. I have also driven a UK STi WRX PPP with the ST 420 (2 litre) in 5th gear this car ran 1 bar at exactly 3000 rpm. I don't have a print out for that car but I think it would be a very good turbo on a 2.5. and it is also very cost effective.
What boost are you planning to run?

l70byb.

iTrader: (5)

Approx 1.5 bar'ish depending on what the mapper thinks the rods can take as only standard rods and wiseco pistons fitted so looking at 400bhp approx but safe power is what i wont .

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

Harvey,

IS the ST380 a TD05-18G, and the ST420 a 20G ?


Mark.

l70byb.

iTrader: (5)

Is IT?

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

I'm not certain, bit it seems to make sense.

One other thing to take into account when looking at any ones spool up figures, is to make sure you compare "like for like".

VVT heads will spool up circa 4-500rpm earlier than non VVT heads, so this needs to be taken into account.

Mark.

l70byb.

iTrader: (5)

So at the price of £895 plus vat it's abit expensive!! when you can pick up a 20g for a few hunderd less from say Andy F

Jam Performance

iTrader: (3)

How much is the ST380?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

The ST380 and ST420 are not TD05 18G or 20G per se.
I think ST is Special Turbo. Check with Area 52 for the correct spec.

Is that a few hundred pounds less because it is secondhand or is it an exchange price?

What power do you want to produce? Some 20Gs are not doing more than 380 bhp and if that is your goal then one of these may be the solution you seek.

On Jason's own car he had 444 bhp on 2 litres but at higher boost so quite clearly the ST420 is ahead of your average 20G.

l70byb.

iTrader: (5)

I'd like to see the magic 400! so maybe the st420 is the way to go!! already spent alot building the car already so whats another grand!!

Mus

iTrader: (2)

its all hunky dory having the pub figures but make sure the car is responsive and it spools well otherwise ul have lower specd scoobs leaving u for dust.make sure u have the right supporting mods in place to help spool up.

l70byb.

iTrader: (5)

Think i've got pretty much got everything i need to make it a good responsive quick car . It's not bad now with the 18g mid range is great! just need something more at the top end . Been in touch with Andy F and there maybe an issue with my cams as i've got 93/94wrx heads and the cams were quite mild and could cause a power drop at high rpm

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

Ok.


Agree with you regarding not all 20G's being the same. The main thing to make sure of is that original Mitsubishi parts are used, and not the cheap far east copies.


Mark.

hypoluxa

Here is one of the dyno graphs for the ST420. Car in question is a 2.0L STi5, fuel used was V-power with 6% meth.




Mark, you don't use original Mitsubishi parts in your hybrid turbos, why should we?

K18LLR, the ST380 is £745+VAT. It ran 411bhp/401lbft on my car.


Jase.
Area52Autosport

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Jase what boost was run to achieve them figures and what is the max boost the ST420 is capable of?

Banny

Cosworth27

Guys I have a ST420 on my 05 2.0l STI and to be honest the car isnt as responsive ands making the amount of power I hoped. However it does pull longer and harder using the mid to upper rev range than it did before running the standard VF35.

But that is my own fault due to speccing the wrong turbo possibly for my mods that I was currently running. To truly see the benefits of this turbo you need to run about 1.8 bar of boost. which for me is out of the question on my 05 STI standard internals.

My current mods are;

3" Milltek sports cat exhaust
tubular header,wrapped
upgraded plugs
green panel filter
650cc injectors
Ecutek Remap
ST420 obvious
uprated fuel pump

Initially I was looking at getting an MD321H but i found the price a little to steep at the time.

Although I am in no doubt the ST420 is a good turbo I would love to be able to do a like for like with a MD321H on my car running the same mods and boost level to see if there is any difference in power/torque and response. Not sure it would be over £400 worth of difference. but in the name of science it would be interesting.


I was looking for around 400 bhp and was a little disapointed to say the least when I came away with 352bhp running 1.4 bar of boost. So only being able to use say 60% of the turbos ability has really put a downer on things.

In the next couple of weeks I am fitting one of Harvey's Hybrid FMICs, 3 port boost solenoid and decatting my 3"milltek. Then I am off to Steve Simpsons for a Simtek Ecu and I should be where I want to be. But we will see.

This tuning lark isnt easy and bloody expensive so choose the right turbo first time for your current level of mods!

hypoluxa

Hi Banny, if memory serves it was 1.75 bar mid down to 1.6 bar at the top end.

Cosworth27, I think the mods you are about to fit will show a marked improvement


Jase.

Cosworth27

Hope so Jase. I will let you know how it goes if you are interested. cheers

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

Sean,

Hopefully it will get sorted out for you.


Jase,


Correct, we use the Garrett GT series ball bearing parts, whilst more expensive than the TD05 sleeve bearing based turbos, they have the advantage of earlier spool up, better throttle response, and consistent performance results.

I appreciate not everyone has the budget for the latest design turbos, so there will always be a place for the cheaper offerings.


In this case, only Sean can say if the £400.00 saving was worth it. Currently, I suspect not, but hopefully they will improve.


Mark.

Jam Performance

iTrader: (3)

K18LLR, the ST380 is £745+VAT. It ran 411bhp/401lbft on my car.


Jase.
Area52Autosport[/QUOTE]

Jase, was that with or without meth? What sort of boost was that at and how responsive was it when compared to something like a VF23

hypoluxa

Cosworth27 - Yes, very interested to know how you get on!

K18LLR - That was with 6% (3L per fill up) meth too, same car & set up as the ST420 test. Boost profile was similar to the ST420. I suspect it will be more responsive than the VF23 - Harvey might be in a better position to answer that?

Mark - All of your posts on this thread have been to undermine and plant 'seeds of doubt' regarding this turbos' capability even though you blatantly do not know what it is!!!

Also, your 'conclusion' that a ball bearing turbo offers 'earlier spool up, better throttle response, and consistent performance results' completely ignores the actual make up of the turbo! The exhaust housing, exhaust wheel, compressor wheel & compressor housing do play quite a large part in all that you know, and just because it's more expensive doesn't mean it's better, I would have thought you would have realised that by now? (I can give you a few examples if you want...)

If you are feeling commercially 'challenged' (or just left out?) why don't you bump one of your 321H threads. There you go, a free plug for your own turbo.


Jase.

Mus

iTrader: (2)

before buying my 20G i was looking into buying the st420/st380/md321h, the reason for not buying the the ST turbos were because when i first heard of them i read up on them on one of the mags but it stated limited numbers only went on to the website sent an email never got a reply proberly due to the email not been sent 3 days later started looking at my other options.so it was out of the md321h or the 20G i went for the 20G as it gave me more money to spend on other parts, its a shame as i know the MD and ST series turbos were both great oh well but my 20g is great and i am more than pleased with it for now.for my next build which will be a 2.5 build il b back on here to see what other optons are available but most likely leaning towards the md321T as its proven by many on here as a great turbo.

mus

Mus

iTrader: (2)

before buying my 20G i was looking into buying the st420/st380/md321h, the reason for not buying the the ST turbos were because when i first heard of them i read up on them on one of the mags but it stated limited numbers only went on to the website sent an email never got a reply proberly due to the email not been sent 3 days later started looking at my other options.so it was out of the md321h or the 20G i went for the 20G as it gave me more money to spend on other parts, its a shame as i know the MD and ST series turbos were both great oh well but my 20g is great and i am more than pleased with it for now.for my next build which will be a 2.5 build il b back on here to see what other optons are available but most likely leaning towards the md321T as its proven by many on here as a great turbo.

mus

typeRv4

Still no one has said what exactly this st420 is...

IMO no one has undermined your turbo - thicker skin needed...

Cosworth27

Just to add and to make things clear, in no way what so ever am I not happy with the turbo I have bought. There are more factors at work here than just the lower power levels I got.

These cannot be concluded to be just the turbo which I should of made clear in my earlier post. There are other variables. Ie the car was road mapped and then tested for power figs on a DD rollers which I trust. It was also put on some Dastek rollers but the readings(boost figs,AFR) and power figs were a bit high to be honest it didnt add up.

When 1.4 bar of boost is reached it then drops off to around 1.1-1.2 hence the need for a 3 port to try to maintain the level of 1.4 throughout. The map I know is good and correct for the car.

With the other mods fitted I do hope for 400 bhp but like I say with out being able to run the level of boost designed for the turbo until the internals are changed then I will never see the true potential for the turbo, I will just wait and see what happens? I also wonder if the ST380 would of been more suitable.?

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

That's a mapping issue surely ?

If it is great on the road, what's the big deal if it doesnt always behave itself on the rollers ?

I havent tried an ST420 myself (at least i dont think so anyway - Jase would know better than me) nor run that little boost but I would be looking at the map first to bring it to life and get the boost control in order.

What ecu is this on ? I am presuming the std ecu - this should be fine at handling 1.5 bar smoothly I would have thought. Who mapped it?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

The ECU can obviously handle more boost or any boost for that matter within reason but the car is on standard internals.

I am very happy with my ST380 which on the STi 3 Wagon is doing 371 bhp at around 1.45 bar.
I have just spent time looking the graphs out.
Actually 371.5 bhp at 6,300 rpm @1.36 bar. Only touched 1.4 bar on the rollers. The 05-06 20G, one of my own, on the 95 WRX Wagon at 422 bhp may go on that car just to see what happens but it is already ahead of some of the poorer versions of the 05 20G we come across.

If you guys get your heads together and Sean is agreeable I am happy to swap his 420 over for a 321 if it is sent to me. If Steve S. is agreeable we can do some back to back testing. Won't cost anything for swapping the turbo or my input.
Sort it out between yourselves and let me know.

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

Jase,


Having just re-read my posts, you're mistaken, and just being paranoid !

No I don't know the turbos, that's why I was asking ! I have customers ask me how one of my turbos compares to another, and I can only answer if I know what it is.

I appreciate you many not want me, or others to know the spec', in the same way I don't want my competition to know the spec' of my turbos, but all of us will find out if we can !

I'm sorry, but I specifically made a point of not questioning your products, or their performance, nor did I mention one of my turbos, because it would be inappropriate in a thread asking about your turbos.

My comments regarding not all turbos of the same name being the same, was in response to Harveys comments, and since he has said that he uses your turbo to good effect, my comment was clearly not directed at your turbos !

In reply to your comment to me, I made a general statement regarding the performance differences between sleeve & ball bearing turbos. These differences are not made up by me, but recognised, and promoted by the turbo manufacturers, and most tuners.

TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech101

Of course, but if you take two sets of identical turbo components, and build two turbos, one with a sleeve bearing core, and the other with a ball bearing core, the one with a ball bearing core will spool up earlier, and give better throttle response. Peak power will be nigh on identical, but the ball bearing cored turbo will have better torque.

There may be the odd exception, but that would be due to a mis-match of components, and that has nothing to do with bearing efficiency.

With regard to price, I've already said that there is a place for both types of turbo, and it's up to the individual to decide what best suits their pocket, and application.


Mark.

Mus

iTrader: (2)

harvey what do you mean by poorer versions of the 20G are you talking about the ones from ja ware house or the uk based ones??? and are they poorer because the dont make the power or is there other issues i should be aware of????

Mus

iTrader: (2)

also ive noticed you using the td05-06 20g rather than the td05 20g? is there a big diffrence between the two?