oadamo

iTrader: (1)

what would i need to build a 400 bhp classic ive come across a closed deck ej20 engine iam thinking about buying some forged pistons and rods. i dont no which ones yet ill have to have a good look at them.then get a new turbo front mount intercooler but what ecu could i use would a standard one be mappable to this level or shoud i get a after market one. what else would i need.
adam

adzer

iTrader: (13)

i'll second this post too lol

i have a cdb which i will be using.

anyone make us a shopping list of parts and possible recommended makes, sites etc

cheers adam

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

The one stop place for all bits is Mark at Lateral Performance, view scooby for whats needed for 400+bhp.

Banny

M0NEY

Also depends on your budget. Lots of pistons and rods out there. Some suppliers charge a fortune as they pistons/rods will take more abuse than you need.

Also budget for brakes/clutch and if running wrx, get ready for gearbox

oadamo

iTrader: (1)

hi money its a 95 wrx my gearbox needs changing anyway so thats what got me thinking lol. iam going to buy all the bits a little at a time or just use the plastic lol. so my budget is what ever it costs if that makes any sense. ive just bought some red stuff pads and drilled discs ive yet to fit them but if there no good i could always upgrade them at a late date. but the car already has 4 pots on not the billet type did these come standard on a wrx or do you no if they are off another version.
adam

M0NEY

The 4pots are ok. I think when you start pushing or near 400bhp you will want to change to maybe brembo 4pots (assuming your 4pots are from 98-00 scoob) or better 6pots like ap racing setup.

Gearbox will last but i found with mine at 400bhp that after a few launches, 2nd gear started to whine so will eventually go.

Plastic is a dangerous thing! haha

You would need a mapable ecu. I used motec which was good but switched to Autronic which was quality

RAPID STI

iTrader: (4)

I have a 380 BHP STi Classic, my spec as follows:

Forged Wossner pistons and standard STi rods
850cc Injectors
FMIC
Td05 18G
Apexi Power FC mapped By Andy F
Striaght through exhaust, turbo back.
Fuel pressure reg

I would also add to this:

Headers
Maybe a larger turbo
Patients

MartynJ

We have just started selling built forged 2.1 short motors using your existing block for £1700 inc vat...
With your CDB you would end up with a very strong engine capable of far more than your intended output...
I would recommend raising the inlet manifold and converting to a front entry MD turbo , MD555 or MD321H ...
For a sub 500hp build a cheap flea bay Autobahn intercooler will do you fine saving a few hundred quid towards your ecu..
The SimTek ecu would be my choice (£995 supplied fitted and mapped inc vat) and allow a bit extra to have the map sensor upgraded for a 3 bar unit , usually £75 ish...
740cc Nismo or Power Enterprise injectors would suit , avoid the cheap Venom injectors as they can be very poorly flow matched...
As for the gearbox , 6 speed boxes seem to be appearing second hand more and more and work very well...

Martyn

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Definitely NOT worth the saving! The high quality hybrid is shy of 300 squid now, is a proven quality product with decent ancillaries etc.. that will not pose any fitting problems.

When having my hybrid fitted by an independent garage, they commented that they had installed several hybrids and Autobahn FMICs and the latter were significantly inferior in terms of both quality and ease of fitment, the labour costs incurred as a result of the latter would more than negate any saving you made buying the inferior product.

The hyrbid is one of those few tuning decisions that really is a "no brainer" IMHO. That comment is not intended as a dig at you Martyn, just testament to just how much I, and many others, rate this excellent value for money piece of kit!


Ns04

MartynJ

No offence taken NS , and to answer you I agree that the hybrid is a very good piece of kit...
That said I have seen some very good results on the Autobahn kit , 500hp + in a few circumstances and the quality of fit isn't bad when done correctly ..
We have fitted loads of Autobahn kits over the last couple of years , the only one that posed any fitting issues was due to the car in question being damaged from a badly repaired accident ....
P.S. We are entirely independent on the intercooler front as we stock neither brand and have sold both on many occassions ....

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Some bits that we may be able to help you with:

- HYBRID GT SPEC FMICs
- Uprated clutches
- Lightweight flywheels
- Turbos (only have 18g in stock at the moment)
- Lightweight crank pulleys
- Uprated kevlar cam belts

We are the cheapest UK stockists for any of the above products, so just drop me a line when you are ready

adzer

iTrader: (13)

can you forward more details and prices to my email adzer7886@aol.com plz

smokingkills

iTrader: (3)

Deep pockets for a reliable 400 & its a slippery slope when you get started.

So far I have acheived your target with this:
MD321T
2.5 SHORTBLOCK
WEISCO PISTONS
LATERALPERFORMANCE RODS
LATERALPERFORMANCE HEADERS
SIMTEK ECU
740 FLOW TESTED INJECTORS
3" FULL DECAT SYSTEM

with other odds & ends it has cost me about £9k this year.

Oh and 6-SPEED BOX & EXEDY PADDLE CLUTCH to be fitted.

BUT WHAT FUN YouTube - Smeatharpe July 08 1/8th mile drag strip. Subaru WRX STI V Subaru WRX STI

Andy Stevens

398bhp on a 96 wagon with a forged 2 litre, 20g turbo, 6 speed box, 740cc injectors and ESL Live as a more affordable option.

P1 RAJ

How much for a 2.33 if I was to supply an EJ22T block?

scogsywrx

iTrader: (1)

this is what i got to get my results..

my93 wrx...405 bhp and 365 lbs.

2.1 litre closed deck block
mahle pistons
eagle rods
acl race bearings
andy forest 20g turbo
roger clark oil pump
sti heads flowed
uprated fuel pump
oil press reg
550 injectors
lightened flywheel
exedy clutch
sti 6 gear box and diff and shafts
fuel rail modification
manifold spacers
inlet raised to front entry conversion
pas pump relocated
blitz sus induction kit
nissan z32 maf sensor
apexi power fc and commander
apexi avcr boost controller
rear anti roll bar and drop links
cusco coilovers
front strut brace
cusco oil catch can
lateral performance 3 bolt headers and upipe heat wrapped.

James Neill

iTrader: (1)

API just rebuilt my classic. Still running in but aiming for 380bhp

TD05-20g
550cc injectors
Ported headers
3" straight through exhaust
ARC intercooler (still a top mount)
Wiseco pistons
API branded steel rods
Modified oil pump
Race tri-metal crank bearings
New standard journal size crank

Edited just to say I'm trying not to destroy my gearbox with too much torque. 400bhp and the torque that comes with it is pushing the limits of a classic gearbox. Having looked at this thread on the TD05 20g vs 18g. I thought the 20g would provide more power higher up the rev range as the torque tails off and with slighly less torque in the mid range than the 18g. Therefore my logic was the 20g would be more "gearbox friendly" whilst having longer legs.

https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...-td05-20g.html

Moot point anyway as I think most people think the 20g is capable of just shy of 400bhp anway.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Here is someone relatively new to Scoobynet and people are lining up to sell him things that he does not need and some of the advice is very questionable.

Oadamo : To build a 400 bhp engine you do not need a closed deck block and there are plenty Classic STis on OE pistons and rods at 400 bhp and few WRX too. To go beyond 400 bhp steel rods and forged pistons are advisable and it is just a matter of shopping around for the best quality items at a reasonable prices.
Cheapest is not usually best.
A set of STi 9 Rods are relatively cheap and quite capable but there are lots of aftermarket rods and pistons available.

Just check it out with someone with genuine experience and not trying to make a profit out of you.

What is for sure, you do not need a 2.1 built bottom end if you are targeting 400 bhp but you may look at that as a cost option against rebore, rods, pistons, rings and gasket set. Also check out a 2.1 cost option. 2.1 and 2.5 engines have different attributes.
A lot will depend on your starting point and it will be easier to achieve 400 bhp from an STi 3 or 4 than a 95 WRX but assuming that the 95 WRX is your starting point, if that engine is already worn then new rods and pistons, probably with a rebore, is your starting point. Also be aware that you can easily take a 95 WRX to 380 bhp or thereabouts for less money than 400 bhp. 380 bhp is a cheaper figure to achieve, relatively than the additional 20 bhp to 400.
There is nothing wrong with the OE crank if it is in good condition. They operate satisfactorily at 500 bhp.
Remember to budget for bearings and gasket set.
Any rebuild would be best with an uprated oil pump. (Around £80)
If you can sell the CDB at a profit that can go towards your build costs as it is overkill at your target power level.
At some point your TY752 gearbox will break. These can break before 300 bhp but odds on they will break around 350 bhp. A TY754 gearbox for around £350 or a litle bit more depending on the box will be good for over 400bhp. Start looking for a good one in advance of your project so you have it to hand when your original breaks. Make sure you get a gearbox compatible with your existing gear train. If in doubt, again, ask someone with the knowledge to determine what you have and what you need.
A good organic clutch for your project will be around £300. The clutch on a 95 WRX, even in good condition is slipping with a little over 300 ft.lb torque.
If anybody tries to sell you a lightweight flywheel and says it will add more power they are telling lies. Much the same for light weight pulleys although they are nice to look at and there is nothing wrong with the OE Gates timing belt, readiator, water pump etc.
550cc injectors will max out around 400 bhp subject to fuel pressure and 740cc are on top of the job until well past 500 bhp. Budget something like £325 but a good bit less second hand.
You may need a fuel pressure regulator and uprated pump. Budget for fuel pump £75. Fuelab pressure regulator £125 and you need a budget for fuel lines and installing it.
Your choice of turbo will be critical to future performance. A good TD05-06 20g will do 400 bhp easily on V-Power plus NF but there are some questionalbe examples that struggle to get 380 bhp. 18g turbos do not generally see 400 bhp. If you can afford new, ask some turbo suppliers like Area52/Scoobymania or AET what they would recommend but pay attention to what boost they use for their claimed power figure. Selecting the right turbo is an art in its own but on a budget of £900 you should be able to make a good choice.
3" exhaust and open neck downpipe. Go for something that is proven in terms of power because not all exhaust systems perform the same. At your power level I would go for properly ported headers and matched uppipe as you will get early spool and quick response compared to most tubular header sets. I sell both but at 400 bhp I would definately opt for ported over tubular.
Your OE ECU will not be able to handle the significant changes at this level and if you can afford new I would look at a Simtek for around £900 plus VAT but you could pick up a second hand Apexi Power FC for a fraction of that cost but in terms of power and refinement that is a much lesser choice.
At 280 bhp the 95 WRX TMIC already cannot cope so you need a good FMIC and I would recommend Hybrid which are very close to the cost of Autobahn but streets apart in terms of quality. Again I am biased because I sell these.
STi heads would be good to have and are always worth more power but this is probably an expensive option that is not cost effective and not necessary if the rest of the job has been done properly but some light porting of your heads would be worthwhile and is cost effective.
My 95 WRX Wagon ran happily around 385 bhp for 18 months or 2 years on standard pistons and rods without a few of the things I am suggesting above and when I pulled the engine apart I was impressed with the good condition considering it was a 90,000 mile car and had plenty abuse over 30,000 odd miles at 385 bhp. That car is now 422 bhp still on one of my TD05-06 20g turbos.
My STi 3 Wagon ran 335 bhp 333 ft.lbs for a year or so with standard turbo, injectors, TMIC and ECU. It is still on standard internals but these components have been changed and it is running 371 bhp and 355 ft.lbs on a Simtek ECU, 550 injectors and Area52 ST380 turbo.

I hope this helps you forumulate a plan and appreciate some of the costs involved.

green un

cracking bit of info^^^

Andy Stevens

[QUOTE=harvey;8101070]Here is someone relatively new to Scoobynet and people are lining up to sell him things that he does not need and some of the advice is very questionable.

Your OE ECU will not be able to handle the significant changes at this level and if you can afford new I would look at a Simtek for around £900 plus VAT but you could pick up a second hand Apexi Power FC for a fraction of that cost but in terms of power and refinement that is a much lesser choice.
[QUOTE]

Add an ESL board to your OE ECU and it will be all the ECU you ever need, adding closed loop knock control and diagnostic fault codes over the Simtek and 3D boost mapping over the Apexi at half the price.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Guaranteed 400bhp in a classic shape impreza on the cheap

MD321h, autobahn FMIC, 550cc injectors, full decat, aftermarket headers, up rated fuel pump, MRT inlet pipe,APS cold air, Apexi ecu and AVCR, and add Andyf for the remap. Your gearbox and engine will be right on its limits but it will be a cracking car and will definately make 400bhp

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I'm NOT an expert, but if you're talking about a relatively cheap and safe build for 400bhp, then APi, Slowboy racing, Area 52 etc.. all do the 2.5 short engine with a forged piston upgrade for around the 2k mark, with the right turbo e.g. 20G(?) FP Green, MD321T it should comfortably crack 400! Of course, you still need the right ancillaries e.g. sufficiently large injectors, better intercooling etc... Oh and a 6 speed gearbox (which is what really bumps the overall price up)

You really need to do your homework with this kind of stuff and get options and quotes from various people.

Ns04

coulty

You are forgetting the fact that the simtek is MAP based and unless you want to go to the trouble of making a blow through MAF setup for the Apexi then i would say the Simtek is miles ahead of the Apexi.

Oh btw i don't run a Simtek. I have an Apexi with MAFSIM so essentially a poor mans Simtek setup. It runs a 2.1 fully forged cdb using ported sti3 heads with a 20g on meth mix and is quite quick.

Stuart

Andy Stevens

ESL is now MAP or MAF based. My 398bhp wagon is running MAFless on ESL.

coulty

Really? Wow that is the way forward then. What years of cars does that cover? Who does ESL?

RA Dunk

a certain guy in edinburgh(ISH) not too far from you lol

Andy Stevens

ESL covers 92-6 with 97-8 due out soon after testing.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Andy : Sorry I missed out the ESL. I have never owned one but that would be a cheaper alternative than the Simtek but less features but quite adequate. Certainly a better option than the Apexi for precise boost control with no need for an electronic boost control such as AVC-R on top.
The O/E inlet tract is not restrictive way past 400 bhp so that is an unnecessary expenditure.
If you are tempted to run a cold air kit, ensure the filter is big enough. The APS CAK on the Classics is restrictive well before 400 bhp.

rossi_p

iTrader: (26)

In relation to ECU... a name not banded about on here much and one I am running is Adaptronics.

No idea the power I'm running (check my scooby spec) but it is defo over 400/400. No problems at all with the Apadaptronics and Zak @ Mocom that maps it is impressed with its adjustability. It also does away with the MAF and associated problems.

Doesn't have some of the Simtek features but much cheaper.

.:AdapTronic:.

Andy Stevens

No probs Harvey. Bought a car here you might recognise, goes very well