500bhp rebuild
26 May 2008, 10:54 PM
#1
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500bhp rebuild
the bottom end of my scoob has just gone so im looking at doing a rebuild.
As the engine is coming apart i would like to build it so it can handle 500bhp.
Is this possible on a 1995 wrx engine and what parts will i need as i would like to keep it a 2 litre.
Im thinking forged pistons, rods, bigend and main bearings, new oil pump and crank anything else???
The engine was only rebuilt 4000 miles ago so is there anything i can reuse?
Also where is best place to get parts from?
As the engine is coming apart i would like to build it so it can handle 500bhp.
Is this possible on a 1995 wrx engine and what parts will i need as i would like to keep it a 2 litre.
Im thinking forged pistons, rods, bigend and main bearings, new oil pump and crank anything else???
The engine was only rebuilt 4000 miles ago so is there anything i can reuse?
Also where is best place to get parts from?
26 May 2008, 11:15 PM
#3
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You would need a massive turbo to produce 500BHP on a 2.0, you have to consider drivability after that.
My built 2.0 should produce 450 with my MD321T, but it takes a good long while to get going.
My built 2.0 should produce 450 with my MD321T, but it takes a good long while to get going.
27 May 2008, 10:09 AM
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You'll need better heads, clutch and gearbox - as well as the completely rebuilt engine!
Could become a very expensive rebuild chasing 450-500HP!
Could become a very expensive rebuild chasing 450-500HP!
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27 May 2008, 01:05 PM
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Scooby Clinic | The UK's Largest Independent Subaru Specialists | 01246 590 807 - Chesterfield S42 6QX can do a 450bhp build for 9k 
I think 13k once you start factoring in that
PS isn't their conversion a 2.5 (the way to go IMHO) but the poster wanted to retain 2.0!
Ns04
27 May 2008, 01:25 PM
#13
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not including gearbox matey, and yup up's it to a 2.5, to get 500 out of a 2.0 your gonna have to throw some serious dollar at it, well poundage lol
cheapest way to get 450bhp i know, and by that i mean that aint gonna kill the box or the engine itself 2 weeks down the line
cheapest way to get 450bhp i know, and by that i mean that aint gonna kill the box or the engine itself 2 weeks down the line
27 May 2008, 05:06 PM
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ive just got 402 on forged pistond sti 9 rods group s headers 20g 10 percent meth reversed inlet manifold i get boost from around 3500k depending on what gears max boost 1.65 sometimes creeps to 1.7 mapped by neil from slowboy-racing.on the road its obiviously gona be quicker than 402bhp and trust me its more than enuff to see most cars of.i invested the rest of the money on a ppg gearbox and twin execdy carbon clutch oil breather RCm oil pump and oil cooler just to make things safer.
27 May 2008, 05:14 PM
#16
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if ur on a budget its pointless having all that power with out been able to launch the car or worrying bot clutches . sometimes people chase dyno figures and forget about how the car will drive on the road i got a 12.1 1/4 mile scooby shootout could of dun a lot beter but due to only doing 5 runs and it was my first time on quarter mile with this car that ive just got of the garge.i could of got in to high 11.s with ease but i missed a few gear changes and sometimes changed to early.only you know wat ur gona be using the car for may be a good idea to speak to a tuner. thats wat i did a member on here recommended neil at slowboy-racing and i cant recomend him enuf
27 May 2008, 05:41 PM
#17
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Well there's always my Budget Rebuild thread on the Projects Forum. 2.0 closed deck block, forged pistons and rods etc, not even reached four figures yet. But if you're having to pay people to do the build for you it's a different story, plus a 500bhp target is never going to be cheap. Once mine's built, with the right turbo it will make 400-450 going by the usual figures, but I won't be running it at that because my TD05-16G and 752 gearbox are staying for the time being.
Once you have the engine apart you can see what needs doing. As a minimum you'll want a new crank for £400, forged pistons and rods can be had for £500 from the States, a good set of bearings another £100, a bore/hone of your existing block £100, new oil pump if it's needed £150, all the bottom end seals//plugs/bolts £50-£100 depending on what needs replacing.
The alternative is to talk over the options with somewhere like API. They know what they're doing and the prices are as reasonable as you'll get if you want the job done right.
Once you have the engine apart you can see what needs doing. As a minimum you'll want a new crank for £400, forged pistons and rods can be had for £500 from the States, a good set of bearings another £100, a bore/hone of your existing block £100, new oil pump if it's needed £150, all the bottom end seals//plugs/bolts £50-£100 depending on what needs replacing.
The alternative is to talk over the options with somewhere like API. They know what they're doing and the prices are as reasonable as you'll get if you want the job done right.
28 May 2008, 10:20 AM
#19
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Well from what I can see, the main difference with using STi heads, which I am thinking about doing myself, is that they rev higher so keep the power going for longer through the rev range where the standard heads are all done by 6000-6500 revs.
But tbh the key to hitting a power target is the turbo you select for the job. I am reusing the 16G and there is no way that flat out at 520cfm it can supply the kind of flow that my finished engine could ultimately use especially if I do fit STi heads. With a bigger turbo, say a 20G or a MD321H, 400bhp+ would be in my grasp.
But tbh the key to hitting a power target is the turbo you select for the job. I am reusing the 16G and there is no way that flat out at 520cfm it can supply the kind of flow that my finished engine could ultimately use especially if I do fit STi heads. With a bigger turbo, say a 20G or a MD321H, 400bhp+ would be in my grasp.
28 May 2008, 12:00 PM
#20
Chasing over 400 bhp is a huge step in money terms for not a vast amount of difference as you cant use that amount on the road really. Whether this be a newage or classic this tends to be the point at which standard components let go (if not before).
My 465bhp package from Scoobymania/Area 52 Autosport is truly awesome but it isnt just the engine you need to upgrade. As mentioned you would need a gearbox to handle it (£2k), clutch/flywheel (£1k), FMIC (£1k ish), Induction Kit (£200), Turbo (£1k +) without even looking at how much a built engine capable of sustaining the power. A 2.5 litre is the way to go but I would still question the reason for the power hike.
(Mine gets more track use than day to day use at the moment so is perfect for the moment... until more power added soon)
Think it through and add up the costs.
My 465bhp package from Scoobymania/Area 52 Autosport is truly awesome but it isnt just the engine you need to upgrade. As mentioned you would need a gearbox to handle it (£2k), clutch/flywheel (£1k), FMIC (£1k ish), Induction Kit (£200), Turbo (£1k +) without even looking at how much a built engine capable of sustaining the power. A 2.5 litre is the way to go but I would still question the reason for the power hike.
(Mine gets more track use than day to day use at the moment so is perfect for the moment... until more power added soon)
Think it through and add up the costs.
28 May 2008, 01:00 PM
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Chasing over 400 bhp is a huge step in money terms for not a vast amount of difference as you cant use that amount on the road really. Whether this be a newage or classic this tends to be the point at which standard components let go (if not before).
My 465bhp package from Scoobymania/Area 52 Autosport is truly awesome but it isnt just the engine you need to upgrade. As mentioned you would need a gearbox to handle it (£2k), clutch/flywheel (£1k), FMIC (£1k ish), Induction Kit (£200), Turbo (£1k +) without even looking at how much a built engine capable of sustaining the power. A 2.5 litre is the way to go but I would still question the reason for the power hike.
(Mine gets more track use than day to day use at the moment so is perfect for the moment... until more power added soon)
Think it through and add up the costs.
My 465bhp package from Scoobymania/Area 52 Autosport is truly awesome but it isnt just the engine you need to upgrade. As mentioned you would need a gearbox to handle it (£2k), clutch/flywheel (£1k), FMIC (£1k ish), Induction Kit (£200), Turbo (£1k +) without even looking at how much a built engine capable of sustaining the power. A 2.5 litre is the way to go but I would still question the reason for the power hike.
(Mine gets more track use than day to day use at the moment so is perfect for the moment... until more power added soon)
Think it through and add up the costs.
Easy to look at offers like this and think, "great a 2.5 400bhp capable motor for 2.5k." But that's not the end cost.
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Its the extras that add up, once you've taken care of the extras referred to above, the cost is more like 6.5k-7k
If, however, you've been modifying your car for sometime and already have the above upgrades then a 2.5 with aspirations of circa 400bhp is a bit of a no-brainer value for money wise.
On a classic, when you're in the low to mid 300s you're already talking serious performance! Most of the time, I simply can't put my foot down for more than a couple of seconds without starting to feel the cold grasp of the law on my shoulder, and that's running a humble 340bhp and slightly more torque
Yet getting to this stage is relatively inexpensive. A 2 litre even with non forged internals will do it comfortably with the right supporting mods and 1st class mapping, and the boost threshold and response will be very good. Your transmission even stands a chance at this level, which is nice If you can do the work for yourself, all the better money wise!Ns04
Last edited by New_scooby_04; 29 May 2008 at 10:14 AM.
29 May 2008, 11:23 PM
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30 May 2008, 08:49 AM
#28
Good comparisons there Dunc/Banny..
Interesting that both have peak torque at identical points, yet the Green produces power later than the MD...
This has to be the first decent MD/Green comparison...?
Interesting that both have peak torque at identical points, yet the Green produces power later than the MD...
This has to be the first decent MD/Green comparison...?
30 May 2008, 08:49 AM
#29
Yes that is an interesting comparison.
I know Duncan's engine spec from his project thread, but what are the details of you engine spec Banny (as your profile seems to say you are still on a 2.0l). How much boost are you running? I guess your heads are non-AVCS, which will make quite a difference to spool.
Don't get me wrong, both curves are very impressive and I would gladly have either, I just want to know what I am comparing.
I know Duncan's engine spec from his project thread, but what are the details of you engine spec Banny (as your profile seems to say you are still on a 2.0l). How much boost are you running? I guess your heads are non-AVCS, which will make quite a difference to spool.
Don't get me wrong, both curves are very impressive and I would gladly have either, I just want to know what I am comparing.