Dee NI

Just looking for peoples opinions on the above. Performance wise etc. is there much between the two. I've seen a few upgraded top mounts for sale which are 4" thick. Seems to be a handy swap with less work and money involved. I'm not talking a £1000 race spec FMIC Vs a £250 TM.

Damien

Tidgy

depends who you ask, some people say top mounts are fine for up to 350bhp + but then otehr say there not.

there was back to back testing done by one of the mags, carried out by scoobyclinic and it showed front mounts are far better at reducing inlet temps.

once mapped up correctly the extra lag you get from the front mount is tiny indeed, so thats not an issue either.

im currently looking at upgrading my turbo and when i do i'll be having a front mount fitted as well, and i should only be hitting about 330bhp

Tidgy

http://www.scoobyclinic.com/download...coolertest.pdf


have a read here

frayz

iTrader: (7)

DO NOT>>> REPEAT DO NOT BUY A CHEAP TMIC!!

Theyre crap mate and will do nothing but hurt your performance. Id get a Newage STI topmount mate. The best cooler there is for the money bar none,.

Tidgy

the top bit is sound advice and also tested in the article and shown to be pants.

uprated top moiunt didn't do much better

borat52

I dont think its worth considering an aftermarket top mount, the intercooler is in a stupid place on the impreza to begin with if your after maximum performance, the front is a far more sensible place to locate the intercooler in order to reduce inlet temperatures but to really get the most out of the FMIC its well worth spending the time doing it properly, which would mean wrapping the turbo in a blanket, wrapping the intercooler piping which goes over the turbo in some sort of heat resistant material to reduce the heat being radiated from the turbo and ensuring you have the air intake located with a cold air feed from the wing. Its also a must to ensure you have no air leaks in the system, which is far easier said than done, I have an air leak in mine at the moment and its ruining performance as when the tubo spools its leaking pressure and as such taking a hell of a long time to generate pressure. Not a clue where its leaking from either, will have to make a trip to the mechanic to find out.

Dee NI

Interesting read on that mag. I think it's a deffinate no for the top mount them.
Only problem is position of the air filter with the front mount. The standard airbox gets the boot which leaves you fitting a cone filter where it used to be. Which although still gets cold air from the feed in the wing, is getting a great deal of hot air from the engine especially if you're giving the turbo a good heating!
I see however the mag feature had the filter down low behind the bumper. Is there much messing about to get it located there. My only worry would be sucking up a nice puddle of water on a wet road. Don't think it would have the desired water injection everyone craves.


Damien

Tidgy

on a new age no probs at all, thphoon cold air induction kits fits inside wing as norm.

on a classic when you put a front mount on you have to go cone as you say, mini bonnet scoop ove rthe top of the ind kit norm sorts it out, plus some people put tubing directing air to cone as well

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Sorry this is just not true. I had a FMIC cooler fitted and even after having one of the very best mappers around (that's Bob Rawle BTW) do his stuff, the lag on gear changes was very noticeable, making for very poor throttle response. I've now switched back to TMIC and the lag has all but disappeared, making for a much faster car through the gears.

As has been said in another thread (titled intercoolers), a TMIC is the preferred route for Lichfield's Type 25 running 400bhp - hardly a car where corners have been cut

Tidgy

can't have been set up right then. simple as. lag isn't an issue once adjusted to suit, and if a mapper can't overcome it then get another is my advice, and you can use the t25 as an example if you like but wonder what it would be like if it had a front mount on it?

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Sorry - but it was all set up right. Bob is thorough and meticulous - end of. The fact is that no matter how well mapped, a FMIC and associated pipework is inherently more laggy than a TMIC. Simple laws of physics as air a) doesn't travel infinitely fast and b) is compressible

Tidgy

then how come another mapper desn't have these issues?

can sprout names of you like, but i don't want it to becom a this mapper is better than that mapper, simple version is the test not only showed lower inlet temps, but also that yes there was increased lag, but was negligable. This is the only back to back test that i know has been carried out, and all other tests or comments are made from different days, with different ambiant temps etc

subaruian

iTrader: (4)

https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...tercooler.html

Tidgy

still yet to see another back to back test to see whats the result is.

the intercooler isn't a direct performance increase liek say a turbo, where you crank up the boost and fueling and you get more power. the intercooler is designed to cool the air and reduce inlet temps, so the top mount will work yes, however it wont be as effective as a front mount, all the tuners admit that.

and lets face it none of them agree on which is best. there has only been one back to back test and that the article linked a bove. so take it as you will

subaruian

iTrader: (4)

just trying to help tidgy as i have had the same prob all depemds on what power you are running aswell both ic have there advantages and yes you are right we do need a back2back test of both

Tidgy

might add this was done on a car running roughly 300bhp, but you can tell that from the report

everyone of the tuners say front mount is the way over 400bhp

teh gaffers 22b running the sc450 devlopment engine is still running a top mount, but it hurts it on hot days

Damocell

iTrader: (1)

I think the main question to ask is, what do you mean by performance? do you mean ultiamte outright bhp or do you mean driveability?

For the road TMIC for the track FMIC but at the end of the day that is IMHO, its like asking do you like blue or black........it's all personal opinions

Damo

Tidgy

well dunno, i have not had a front mount on my car, so can only go from whats reported, back to back test showed the fornt mount to be best so thats what i'm sticking to

subaruian

iTrader: (4)

if you dont mind me asking what bhp you got at mo and when did you decide to put fmic on?

Dee NI

Mine is standard uk turbo spec at the moment. No set bhp figure in mind. Just wanting to free up some 'easy' horses by improving the engine breathing. ie. exhaust system, induction which lead me onto intercoolers and the different types. I suppose a lot of the induction side needs to account for desired bhp results aswell as other changes like turbos. Not to mention road/track applications.


Damien

subaruian

iTrader: (4)

thats the route i went full decat panel filter more free flowing and then i thought about more power so i got a boost controller and thought ic and got into the tmic vs fmic im only looking for max 320-330bhp so ile be ok with sti8 tmic as advised buy andyf,harvey,etc so next on the list is turbo,fueling,remap in the meantime waiting for bigger scoop
/grille from paint and have just ordered inovit redline 18s theyve just come out so cant wait to put em on

Damocell

iTrader: (1)

Tidgy, no offence intended mate but if you havn't got a FMIC how can you comment on the lack of extra lag a FMIC will add if mapped properly? Serious question.

Damo

Damocell

iTrader: (1)

Also I'm not saying the test is wrong but shouldn't all of the tests have been running a CAIK?

Damo

Tidgy

because i spoke to the guy who mapped it for the tests

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

but the test did not test an STi TMIC and even with a WRX top mount vs FMIC including mapping in extra boost against an unmapped TMIC only got 12bhp iirc extra - make your own mind up whether nearly £2k spend versus that return is worth it.

Tidgy

2k holy badgers, what sort of front mount you having???

all costs bar the fron mount would be the same mapping etc, so only difference is the price for the intercooler itself, clinics is £650 plus thre dreaded

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

(cynacism ON)
You mean the guy from scoobyclinic trying to sell scoobyclinics FMIC (cynacism OFF)

The fan in the test is NOT adequate to provide a representative airflow to a TMIC, nor an FMIC, but all round it would be to the benfit of the FMIC.

an FMIC absolutely HAS to increaes lag, it plain common physics and bloomin obvious, a reversed manifold and pipe running either side of a custom rad are better, but still have to be worse than a TMIC.

There is lots that can be done to improve the TMIC, bigger, spray, tilt, bigger scoops, and splitters.

You can improve a TMIC by reducing the heat soak as well, wrapped up, turbo, down or snorkeled turbo like the older Impreza's.

As to which is best, thats like asking which turbo is best (for what its worth, that's the TF035 IMO - hah!) as its all down to whats more important to YOU the owner and driver. Take the 'proper' advice, understand what people like and dislike and why, and decide how that fits in with what you want, some who have gone FMIC will never ever go back, some have gone straight back as they hated the extra lag (with the turbo THEY have remember) despite the extra power.

Me I would love to have a TMIC - charge cooler.....(now who's going to accuse me of being different for differences sake first!)

Simon

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Bang on mate, the test was hardly fair IMO.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

plus labour in fitting - i think the article said 6 hours
plus dump valve - cant run a std one
plus induction kit - cant run std airbox

add it up yourself

scoobystiv8

I found my Hybrid front mount on my classic quite laggy with the 18G, I now have an STI version 8 and am going the same route with the 18G, but this time sticking to the STi top mount.
I would say use the version 7,8,9 top mounts until you have no other options.
As said before laws of physics.






Didnt Andy F. run a top mount and still hold the crown as the fastest a couple of years ago. At above 550HP?