robertdon777

I have coming to me a VF28 and i'm looking at fitting it to my MY00.

1. is it a straight swap? i've read a couple of different opinions on here!

2. a remap or put in a P1 ecu?

so those are the 2 questions, i was going to have a remap but as an option is it possible to just plug and play with a P1 ecu?

my final goal is 300bhp with this turbo, uprated fuel pump, panel filter, and sports cat - decat centre, which i'm hoping is easily acheivable.

Thanks in advance

Rob

vindaloo

Too many variables between the installations either way IMO to expect it to work properly without a remap.

A P1 has an STi engine with different compression ratio, heads and cams and an 8K rev limit.

Actually getting it all to bolt up shouldn't be too much of an issue but make sure you get the right oil lines as one or t'other has a restriction banjo thing in/on the pipework.

Talk to Scoobyclinic, API or some other respected body of knowledge for specific advice.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

remap required else you'll be paying for a new engine too very soon.

Simon

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

In a word, No!!

At the very least, you'll not get the benefits from the turbo: my car felt as flat as a pancake on the way to Bob's to get my VF35 mapped. Most likely you'll break something expensive!!

When you get the turbo installed, drive the car off boost to the mappers!

Ns04

robertdon777

Yep will do, just need to save the cash for the remap now then its 300bhp here i come!

Well once i sort a banjo bolt for the VF into the block.

Rob

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

You should be able to run with the VF28 on as long as you set the boost to standard levels.
You will need to adjust the size of the restrictor in the pipe to the actuator in order to maintain standard levels.
If you use the restrictor/pipes from the VF28 the bore of the restrictor is too small and you will get increased boost.
IIRC this is about 0.9mm. If you swap to using the TD04 restrictor it should be about right.

But I would only recommend this if you have a Knocklink fitted.

I done this on mine a few years back before getting it re-TEK mapped (it was already on a TEK2). I ran for a few weeks like this at 1.2bar without any knock activity. PE checked it before they remapped it and it hit 296BHP. They commented that it would of run like without a problem. after the remap it got 316BHP on the final run, and then for good measure 321BHP with a splash of water on the interccooler

Re: Banjo bolt....I'll post the number up later

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Don't listen to the above its not good advice.

Listen to what Jolly says, He maps cars for a living. If you do have to fit it and run it take out the hose with the restrictor in that goes between turbo and boost solenoid and replace it with a hose and no restrictor. That way you'll only be running waste gate pressure which will be around 0.7 bar.

If you run the car without a remap on a standard UK engine you'll risk blowing it to pieces and it will cost you alot more than a cost of a remap to put right.

Daz

Maz

iTrader: (34)

It's sounds perfectly valid to me although as Simon says a remap would be advisable. The air to fuel ratio is the key and as long as you keep boost levels reasonable there shouldn't be an issue.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

And I've never mapped a car in my life...right.....

I did mention that I would only recommend it if a knocklink was fitted.
wrt AFR the ECU should be perfectly capable of adjusting the fuelling to cater for the minor difference the VF28 will make. The VF28 isn't alot bigger then the TD04, it's just more capable at holding the boost for longer.

My car was checked on the rollers before the remap and the AFR's were fine and the IAM was still at 16.

If the car in question is running a standard Ae802 ECU then it's gonna be running pretty rich anyway.

I also know of others with VF24/VF28's that havn't had a remap at all and run 1.3bar on a boost controller. These have also been rolling roaded and no issues arose.

I'm not saying every car would be the same hence the reason for mentioning the Knocklink.

Personally I wouldn't run the car long term without a remap, but at 0.9bar IMHO it should be OK.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

I don't know. I've never heard of you as a mapper.

I have done what this blokes about to do. ie I put a VF28 on a standard UK car and I had issues. Fortunatly I now know better and I wouldnt advise it.

Although that said I am about to replace my VF28 with a Rotated GT30R and that will be driven to Andy in Port Seaton from Doncaster without being mapped first. (very carefully and off boost of course).

I think this guys question was whether he could run the turbo and dropping a P1 ECU without bothering with a remap.

Whatever we all think its more sensible to advise the guy to get a remap and be on the safe side than to suggest he may or may not be ok.

Surely thats common sense?

Daz

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I certainly wouldn't advise fitting the P1 ECU.
I was only talking about running standard boost, and only if a knocklink was fitted.

The Ae802 ECU can also run quite a bit of extra boost, without a remap, via a boost controller due to it's extra fuelling.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Mine was a UK 1999 and it didnt like the VF28 one little bit. It was fine with just actuator pressure though.

Like i said its best to advise a remap then you have no come backs should the worst happen.

Daz

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Hence why I mentioned the restrictors in the actuator pipe.

At what point did I say not to get a remap ?

Fuzz

Listen to the majority in here and get it to a good mapper.
ONLY way to be sure..
It might be fine in which case it'll cost you a power run on a dyno..


Andy

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I’ll reiterate what I have said above, to avoid confusion.

If you can adjust the size of the restrictor to run 0.9bar (standard boost pressure), then it will be fine to drive. If you run with the VF28 restrictor it will overboost and the ECU will struggle to rein in the boost.
Running 0.9bar you probably won’t notice much difference to the TD04 other then slightly later spool. And the ECU should still tailthe boost off at the top end as per OE setup.

As you want 300BHP, then I would strongly advise getting it remapped. You need to be running 1.3bar to achieve this which is only safely achievable on a remap IMHO.

Banjo Bolt Pt.No (as requested) is ‘STU21’ from Roger Clarke.

If you don't fit the above Banjo bolt this will effect Spool time. As the VF28 is a roller bearing the oil flow needs to be reduced to avoid over-pressurisation (hence slowing spool).

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

but... you are basing your research on running a car with a Tek2 ecu on a vf28.. ie. not a standard ecu and you are talking about boost like this dictates the fuelling.. when infact it is the maf voltage / load which at 0.9bar on a td04 and vf28 will be entirely different and although it might be rich on a td04 it might not be on a vf28 as it will be in different areas in the map.

Simon

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Have you ever seen the map in a TEK2...it ain't alot different.

If anything the TEK map probably runs leaner then a standard Ae802, so would be even worse.

Many years ago....before you even started mapping, alot of people (me included) were running around with Dawes Valves and bleed Valves. Some people (one of which has gone to the dark side....u know who I mean), was running ridiclous boost using an Ae802.

If the guy had fitted a 18g, 20G etc..etc..then fair enough, run it off boost as the air mass is going to be alot larger.
But a VF28 is only marginally bigger and as mentioned above there are people on here running them with stock ECU, boost controllers and 1.3bar...and no they havn't gone bang because they have been running like it for over 2 years. Personally I don't like the idea of this but if their happy then thats their choice.

I wasn't telling the guy to run 1.2bar and it'll be fine. I was telling him to be careful and set it up to 0.9bar stock boost, check with a knocklink, and then take it for a remap in order to get 300BHP+.

FYI on the MY99/00 the MAP signal does have an input on the fueling as it is also used to calculate the load along with the MAF.
This can be proven by fitting an FCD on the map signal to force a lower reading, this in turn forces a low load to be calculated and hence gives more timing, less fuel and the possibility of detonation.

This doesn't apply to Pre96 OEM ECU, but not sure about 97/98.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

you have mistook what I was insinuating.. the map signal does have an influence but the load calculation for the same boost on the two turbos would end up in entirely different areas of the map, due to the extra air flow, so it is not sufficent to say the standard ecu is rich on the TD04 and therefore will have enough fuel in to cover the larger turbo.. it may well have, but it may well not, you are making assumptions.

Yeah we have all been there years ago, on various different makes of cars etc etc..
some time you are lucky, sometimes your not.

Simon

robertdon777

Don't worry i'll have it mapped at the same time as the VF28 is put in (well once driven to the mappers) , with its new banjo bolt (cheers Scott for th part no.)

Rob

oh and its an 802 ecu

john banks

What is wrong with 23 PSI on a larger turbo with an unmapped AE802 with knocklink, Walbro, exhaust?

I did this, it didn't go lean and didn't det. The engine went on to be the first unopened UK engine to exceed 400 BHP and was run as high as 28 PSI without apparent damage.

A map is easier if you don't know what you're doing though.

john banks

I don't see how it will go lean, the MAF sensor is measuring airflow, as long as you don't hit 54 load or whatever the clip was or don't go over 4.64V or whatever the MAF clip is, how will it go lean until the injectors are maxxed out which is beyond the scope of a VF28 with a Walbro pump?

It isn't luck, it is good judgement about not blowing engines up. The only stuff I broke was chocolate spec EJ257 stuff at over 25 PSI at 100 BHP beyond where the experts of the time said it would melt.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

It defo won't go above 4.64V. I don't think mine even goes above that running 1.35bar, 11AFR and 95% IDC (440's Std Pressure & Pump)

Also from what I understand of the OEM ECU, the fuel map is AFR based and not IDC based, so it will alway get as close to the fuel map AFR as possible i.e increase or decrease the IDC accordingly.

john banks

If it did go over 4.64, just fit APS induction, 550s and fling in some methanol

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

lol.. could also fit some twin webbers..

crashNburn

I had the same problem. Got mine at yell.com. The site is nice with all other great stuff.





_________________
Ariel
Subaru 2006 Legacy Brochure

crashNburn

I believe my friend tried that one but it did not work. Well, maybe his installation process was the problem. Ask an expert, I suggest.





_________________
Ariel
Subaru 2006 Impreza Brochure