555_lad

i am new to the subaru modding scene i have owned a few big powered cosworths but now want to try the subaru scene.
So here goe i am looking for 400bhp i have been told i could get this out of a 2.0 with supporting mods here is a list of things i am going to purchase anyone with any advice will be helpfull...

1.2.0 sti ra closed deck block
2.sti ra crank
3.forged con rods
4.wiseco low comp forge pistons and rings
5.front mount
6.20g turbo
7.apexi
8.3inch straight through exh
9.uprated oil and fuel pumps
10.lightweight pulleys
11.gearbox upgrade(anyone got a rough idea what to go for also a price for this cheers)
12.quickshift&ap paddle clutch

If any one has better or more ideas let me know also what size of injectors there prob lots more things i need to get have about 4,4.5k to spen so get the ideas coming in thanks

alloy

safety mods might be a good idea, such as header spacers, catch can etc and maybe methanol in the fuel or some octane booster and you should be at the door of 400bhp

Also while upgrading the clutch a lightweight flywheel is a good mod, my 4.2 kilo flywheel is probably my fav mod

Neilo

most of what youve said is suitable but i think that perhaps you have underestimated on the cost side of things.

The gearbox being the major headache there. you have 2 routes really, the 6 speeder from a newer STI which would probably set you back about 2k fitted, or you could get a 5 speed PPG (my personal choice) for about 3k fitted.

so if your budget is 4-4.5k then you can see where im coning from.

on top of the gearbox youve probably listed a realistic 5k's worth of parts there, so thats 8k straight off!!

then there is the matter of the 20g most likely not making the 400bhp you want. not many do make it without very high boost or fuel additives or both....

Neilo

you could also get your heads ported and flowed to help then circulate more air to help the engine along too, but then....thats another cost.

to answer your injector question, you would need 550cc minimum (i think the next size down are 440s for a classic which wouldnt be up to the job)

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

as Neilo says, you would struggle with that turbo to achieve that target, also you could save some costs by using an open deck block, there are people running in excess of 400bhp on them with no detrimental effect, think Harvey runs an open deck block.

555_lad

what turbo then lads price and where to get one from cheers

p1mark

The turbo on mine gave 405bhp at 1.4 bar, you may well be able to run a bit more boost than that with your spec.

Its a RCM Garret GT35/P18 hybrid.

Ignore the late spool up at 4K+ RPM, its a RR related thing. I get 1 bar at 3600 RPM on the road.
.
.

Andy.F

As the guys have said, despite having made up to 440 bhp on a fully optimised set up running octane booster, the 20G may struggle to see 400bhp on all applications.
Before going to a larger 400bhp capable turbo, consider whether you really want the extra lag, this will bug you over time as you get caught out needing to drop a gear more often.
A fast spooling 380bhp car will outpace a laggy 410bhp car in most conditions.
I wouldn't recommend anything larger than a 20G on a std internals 2.0 if you want a decent lifespan from it.

Andy

555_lad

this is what i got told so looks like it the 20g as it been recomended by my mates at greersport now andy forrest says so looks like a be coming your way next year andy around begining of feb see you soon mate thanks for the advice

scoobyDAZZA

MD321
mark @ lateral performance



but don't forget what everyone else is saying

the 321 will give you your power goals though

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

get an Sti short engine, that should be ok at that power level, speak to a decent tuner/the guy who is going to be doing your remap for advice

Andy Forrest and Bob Rawle spring to mind

555_lad

does anynoe think a 2.5 with vers 3 sti heads port inlets and a 20 g plus remap and what ever else i need what about that

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

with supporting mods yes it would be good (Assuming it is built correctly). it will offer a shedload of torque and be a very nice drive, however it wont rev as good as a built 2.0.

There was a built 2.33 going in the for sale section from I think someone called Conrad. I think AndyF uses a 2.33 and a lot of the high power scoobs do run them

555_lad

going to speak to my local coompany called greersport they built my 450bhp cossie so looks like it be a 2.5 with supporting mods or a 2.0 closed deck block

Playsatan

iTrader: (2)

Bill and the boys have built more than a couple 400+ motors so you're off to a good start. Ask them for a "Wilky" special.

MartynJ

Would also recommend speaking to Turbo Dynamics about there MD195s turbo....Have used this on a couple of 2litre cars and seen 392bhp and 365lbft on one and 401bhp and 360lbft on the other...Have one being fitted on a 2.5 at the moment and will post results when run in and mapped....Turbo Technics are also just about there with a T38 hybrid and uppipe with 450/450 numbers being discussed..Have used one of these on a 2.3 Evo 6 and seen exactly these figures with superb road manners...

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

MartynJ what mods and fuel where these cars running? At what boost level did they make the figures?
As i have the same turbo and was hoping for similar figures, so any help would be appreciated.

banny

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I think a lot depends on what you already have and what model and year you are running.
On road fuel plus NF Octane booster, most TD05-06 20 G will make 380/385 bhp. There are exceptions where everything has been done and figures are over 400bhp. Unless you do everything and it is all complimentary, do not be disappointed if you do not get 400 bhp. That said I have 420.7 bhp on one of my own 05-06s, 2 litre, Optimax plus 2 mls/l NF.

05-06 20G. It depends on other factors but 1 bar in 4th on a 2 litre is typically 3100-3600 with full boost at 3600-3800. So for the power it produces, it spools reasonably well which is what makes for a reasonably quick cross country car.

There is no need for a CDB. Stay with the open deck block unless you already have the CDB.
Crank. There is nothing wrong with the O/E crank at well over 400 bhp.
For the power you will get from an 05-06 you can stay with O/E rods and pistons if you have them already and in good condition. If you are buying from fresh then the extra for forged items is worthy of consideration.

At this stage the choice of engine builder is really important.

Apexi Power FC ??? What model year car???
Light weight pulleys and flywheel are nice to have but they do not add BHP.

Paddle clutch. Avoid like the plague. Apart from anything else, at 400 bhp/ 350 ft lbs you do not need one.

MD321. There are several variants. I am aware of an MD321L, claimed by the supplier to be a 450 bhp turbo which struggled badly to make 391 bhp on a JUN 2.1 litre and max boost did not come until 4,800 - 5,000 so be careful and treat sales talk as just that.

2.5 litre. you can get a 350 bhp + engine with huge torque, relatively say 400 + ft/lbs. This makes a very drivable car but you cannot dyno queen. The drivability will be better than a 2 litre of greater BHP and the cost will not be astronomic, by comparison but depending on what you already have.
Again, the choice of engine builder is the key. Avoid inexperience and bull****ters.

MartynJ

The first car was an Sti V8 with an APS frontmount and induction kit , RCM headers and uppipe , 650cc injectors and the MD195s running on an Ecutek remap by myself...Boost was 1.6 tailing to 1.3..

The second was a fairly fresh rebuild on a V4 Sti with Omega pistons and metal gaskets...Frontmount , induction kit , RCM headers ,740cc injectors (used for more scope later) and an Apexi Power Fc fitted and mapped by myself..Boost again 1.6 tailing to 1.3..

Andy.F

How do you find that MD195 turbo for lag Martyn ? I have only come across one but thought it was quite laggy for the output, the owner changed it for a 20g which made the same power but hit full boost 300rpm earlier. Do you have the power graphs to hand ?

Andy

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

My car is a V3 sti and has the following mods fmic with wrapped pipes, gruppe s v2 headers and uppipe fully wrapped, induction kit, full 3" decat, with wrapped downpipe, 550cc injectors, fuel lab fpr, samco induction hose, inlet manifold spacers, apexi avcr and apexi power fc. To be mapped with v-power and millers octane booster.
Andy when did the car make full boost?

Banny

MartynJ

Yes Andy I also found it to be a little laggy but then at this level I kind of expected a bit of that...In comparison the 20g on Bills car that you mapped for us pulls in the power at exactly the point in the rev range...
Here is the graph for the Sti V8...

Andy.F

You can't really compare different models, the Sti and UK classics will differ through the years, then you have the new age Sti with the AVCS to assist in spooling.
Some have found the AVCS to be worth 500rpm in spool up although I personally have yet to see quite that big a difference.
Intercooling has a big influence, the cooler the air the quicker it will spool, almost regardless of pipe run length ie fmic v tmic.
Ideally you need to do a back to back on the same car.

Andy

911

555lad
I feel there is some great solid advice in this thread for you.

I have run an Sti v3 much the same as Banny above for 2 years at 380bhp x 360 lbft.
The engine has a 20g, and several COMPLIMENTARY mods to support it.(not Harvey's advice)

The combinaton of parts is the key, and so is the mapper!
The wizzard for me is AndyF who advised me in the early days.(and now)
My engine is stock 2 litre V3 Sti all mods are bolt-on, and uses Optimax with a full dose of NF booster.
I think it is essential to have the V3 cams.

As to the gearbox.
Mine is stock V3 with an AP organic. I hillclimb my car seriously so it gets all manner of grief regularly, and has NEVER faltered or broken.

The 380 x 360 output makes the car a true delight to drive.

Hope this helps.
Graham.
Only if you REALY want to read all about it!
https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...e-started.html

555_lad

will let yous all know will keep you all up to date with pics and what not but starting point will be the 20g weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

In the general scheme of things, how much extra power can be had from running a petrol/methanol mix?