lee65

Ok just thought i would put the question out to see what you all think
Looking to get a tek3 done some ringing about and asked the same question.
So what is best rolling road or on the road (live) mapping?
Lee

marklemac

Use the search facility.

Its been covered many a time on here

AlanG

I have been mapping recently on rollers but tweak on road after, but what comes up time and again is
"Do you drive the car on the road?" or do you
"Drive the car on the rollers?"
The more powerful the car, the more difficulty arises when mapping on the road, so i would suggest in your case you have it mapped on the road for the moment.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Having had my car mapped very recently on the road, it is great fun, albeit a bit sapping on the body and soul. 4th and 5th gear wot runs, keep you very alert.

Andy

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Can I ask you who did your mapping and what the process basically entailed?

Many thanks,

Ns04

wideybrook

Got to say is is virtually impossible to gauge a difference of 5-10 BHP on the road, will you be taking your car for dyno days after? If you bothered about the figures then dyno rules OK

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Paul @ Zenperformance mapped the car.

Process: The car will have a base map loaded and he will test everything is ok (my welly was getting in the way, but thats another story ). Then you drive normally while he adjust lots of settings. He will then ask you to go full throttle in 4th gear (2.5k to 7k) revs until he indicates to slow down (or traffic gets in the way), this is repeated several times in 4th 5th and 3rd gears. Then you will do some half throttle accellerations in 3rd/4th gear, again repeated until he's happy, he will be upping the boost levels as the session progresses After which comes some 3rd to 5th full bore runs until the road runs out or he indicates to slow. Some ballistic speeds can be reached.

JTaylor

Read this

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...hlight=mapping

Andy.F

Dangerous and just not necessary.

Andy

john banks

One contributing factor to me getting out of mapping on the road commercially was the safety/legal/liability issues.

More cars were coming with bigger turbos and the owners clearly wanted a car that would safely do silly speeds. How do you map them to this unless you can load them up to this speed? As soon as you got out of 2nd gear you'd be breaking the law just about.

The complications if a customer binned it on a mapper's instructions didn't bear thinking about.

OTOH, if you map on the rollers you need to be confident that your rollers can replicate what that car will then do on the road when the guy goes and races a motorbike...

I used to do some silly things that I'm glad I've left behind. One day something terrible might happen, or perhaps people will end up straight to jail, as the speeds involved make some of the "record speed 151mph" etc headlines seem trivial.

A facility like Bruntingthorpe or another airfield where you can get some power down safely in top gear would be quite a good way of doing it I'm sure as some do.

Andy.F

Young lads like you and Pavlo shouldn't be allowed out in fast cars

john banks

Edit. Thought probably best not to comment about a previous case of a GT2 and a biker in any specifics except to say that there but by the grace of god or whoever, go a lot of Scooby drivers.

ZEN Performance

Perhaps you had to be there to ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT WE DID before posting comments like that Andy.

Don't be so incredlby stupid to assume we took the car to 7k or anywhere near it in 5th gear.

john banks

I'm not criticising anyone here, just asking difficult questions that I could never answer satisfactorily...

How do you guys map for sustained peak power without using a dyno then or do you just extrapolate conservatively? Brakes tend to overheat trying to dissipate 400 BHP or so of excess power for long enough to stress the engine.

If we had ECUs we could trust to shut it all down in response to high EGTs or high RPM knock then all might be a bit easier, but a lot of the ECUs we map don't have all this?

ZEN Performance

Crystal ball, luck rabits foot, divining rods and a magic 8 ball.

Andy.F

Sorry Paul, didn't think I needed to be there when the driver relayed the above info FIRST HAND !
I stand by what I said. Dangerous and just not necessary

Andy

Andy.F

Or preferably you can base it on many years of turbocharged car tuning experience (in some cases)

pugsleygti

ooooooo hand bags away boys save it for the strip
chris

Andy.F

lol suits me

pugsleygti

can't wait to see yours go mate just hope u can show that norris "bogey" thing what for
chris

ZEN Performance

It is unfortunate that i have to correct some innaccuracies in the drivers post. We did not take the car flat out in 5th. On one occasion we ran through the gears 3-4 then into 5th for a second or 2 before backing off, and this was only done as the opportunity presented itself.

Repeated WOT runs to 7k not done in any gear other than 3rd gear. Repeated WOT runs in 5th gear from 2.5k to 3.5k sometimes 4.5k
Occasional WOT runs in 3rd followed by a change into 4th follows by WOT for a second or 2. A veriety of part throttle runs, not to mention many adjustments while the driver doesn't even notice because he is doing what I want through his normal driving at the time.

What are ballistic speeds to some, are bettered by others within less than 10 seconds of a standing start.

Ultimately it is the drivers responsibility to regulate his speed. I make it clear that if the customer is uncomfortable with anything he can back off, and that road safety is ultimately down to them. I still keep half an eye on the road, as sometimes the customers own judgement doesn't quite agree with mine.

I also take into account the spec of the car from the outset, asking someone to hold prolonged WOT in a 12 year car with 130,000 miles and a standard engine is a recipe for disaster.

I find it paticularly ironic that you have the bare faced cheek to lecture me about speed, when you gave me such a hard time over posting about the dangers that come with a high power car. You suggested that
your local roads allow VERY high speeds to be acheived and that you were not adversed to doing so. And to top it off you just about acuse me of lying about the customers mapping in question, which is none of your business in the first place.

And while I'm at it, BECOME AN AUTHORISED ADVERTISER.

Paul

john banks

There are roads up here that can be physically crossed at very high speed, but even if you feel it is safe, the Police/Courts/Law will not agree and the policitcal attitude to speeding these days makes it widely accepted as antisocial. That is a risk that people take, a big fine is one thing, loss of licence quite another, jail sentence or killing someone worse still.

Andy.F

Really ? If it is in good condition and properly tuned then why should that be a problem for a standard engine ? Why would it end in disaster ? Are you suggesting such cars can't do top speed runs at Elvington for example I'd better get in touch with some of my regular Elvington runners then

Andy

ps thanks for the advertising tip but I'm currently too busy as it is.
Anyway I currently appear to be a double SN++ member so that surely allows anything

Andy.F

You just don't need to do high speeds during mapping. My Sti5 type R had never run any faster than a 1/4 mile terminal before doing 199/204/207/210 mph.

Andy

pugsleygti

now your getting bitchy lol...... better than eastenders on here lol.. as far as i see it everyone has there own way of doing things and if everyone did the same there wouldn't be any competition u both build amazingly quick cars so u both must no your stuff just wish scotland was nearer
chris

john banks

It involves some educated guesswork though since you can't get the same load/duration/temperature build up unless you actually test it doing it? You driving a car you built and mapped at high speed when it hasn't been tested there before and a customer doing it (you know as well as I that some of the baseball hat wearers are good with the right foot and not much else LOL) are surely two different things? And even then, with the sort of sensory bombardment in your car even you won't be watching your gauges at 210 mph as much as you would perhaps like to?

ZEN Performance

Andy,

Without wishing to state the fecking obvious, your car finishes the 1/4 mile at a speed greater that most people have ever drive, and faster than I think I have ever done as a passenger while mapping a car.

I also seem to remember riding in the passenger seat of your car at Bruntingthorpe in your car that you had mapped on Optimax, without excessive speed. Except on this occasion, you filled it with race fuel, and me looking at the knock on the powerFC at 198mph because you were paranoid about blowing it up (and rightly so). I also remember that you adjusted the ignition timing for the next 199mph run, again with me holding the FC commander and keeping an eye on the knock.

If your car was so effectively mapped as it was, why did you feel the need to change the fuel, have me looking at the knock, and adjust the ignition timing? Today's confidence in your existing 1/4 map was rather lacking on that day at bruntingthorp.

Andy.F

I recall you suggested jumping in to 'keep an eye on things' hope you learned something
You may also recall that my laptop would not communicate on the day and as a result I couldn't load the appropriate map.
There is a massive difference to the way I tune my own car for 200+mph (it obviously needs to be close to the edge or else everyone would be doing it) and how I tune customer cars for continuous unmonitored thrashing.

Andy

ZEN Performance

SO basically you guess then.

Andy.F

No, not a guess at all. It is based on many years of tuning experience on turbocharged cars running under circuit race/hill climb/drag race conditions.
Something you cannot yet comprehend and possibly the main reason you have had so many catastrophic engine failures.

Andy