Ooooh Sh*t - not good!!
19 July 2005, 11:55 PM
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Ooooh Sh*t - not good!!
Hi Chaps - my 1999 turbo classic is poorly!
Its just started missing..like its on three cylinders and pouring grey smoke out of the back that smells of petrol........there's a bit of the same smoke coming from the right hand side of the engine (battery side) as well.
Its running like ****.
There's no mechanical noises and I 've checked both the oil and the water and they seem ok.
It occured wihilst doing a ton in 4th - which isn't too drastic a rev I don't think?
Any ideas?
Its just started missing..like its on three cylinders and pouring grey smoke out of the back that smells of petrol........there's a bit of the same smoke coming from the right hand side of the engine (battery side) as well.
Its running like ****.
There's no mechanical noises and I 've checked both the oil and the water and they seem ok.
It occured wihilst doing a ton in 4th - which isn't too drastic a rev I don't think?
Any ideas?
20 July 2005, 12:06 AM
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ooops
Originally Posted by rochie
Hi Chaps - my 1999 turbo classic is poorly!
Its just started missing..like its on three cylinders and pouring grey smoke out of the back that smells of petrol........there's a bit of the same smoke coming from the right hand side of the engine (battery side) as well.
Its running like ****.
There's no mechanical noises and I 've checked both the oil and the water and they seem ok.
It occured wihilst doing a ton in 4th - which isn't too drastic a rev I don't think?
Any ideas?
Its just started missing..like its on three cylinders and pouring grey smoke out of the back that smells of petrol........there's a bit of the same smoke coming from the right hand side of the engine (battery side) as well.
Its running like ****.
There's no mechanical noises and I 've checked both the oil and the water and they seem ok.
It occured wihilst doing a ton in 4th - which isn't too drastic a rev I don't think?
Any ideas?
20 July 2005, 12:56 AM
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rochie im serious. if one of your pistons or rings are damaged there would be excessive crankcase pressure and the smoke gets blown out the oil fill pipe(and dipstick filler pipe).just try it now and you will have your answer instead of sitting up worrying.
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20 July 2005, 01:46 AM
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Does sound a bit bad.
However, I always like to look at simple things first 'cos you never know.
So, bad plug, loose plug, duff plug lead, plugleads and plugcaps tight?
All other connections in engine bay good?
All worth a check.
However, I always like to look at simple things first 'cos you never know.
So, bad plug, loose plug, duff plug lead, plugleads and plugcaps tight?
All other connections in engine bay good?
All worth a check.
Last edited by Vegescoob; 20 July 2005 at 01:48 AM. Reason: too many plugs!
21 July 2005, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard
rochie im serious. if one of your pistons or rings are damaged there would be excessive crankcase pressure and the smoke gets blown out the oil fill pipe(and dipstick filler pipe).just try it now and you will have your answer instead of sitting up worrying.
Just after it happened there was smoke that was coming out of the side of the engine by the exhaust...I can't see any holes on the block though!
21 July 2005, 12:08 PM
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you cannot call it standard having fitted induction kit and dump valve..
induction kit can cause excessive timnig to be run and it to run lean on standard ecu map, as it effect the load the ecu sees via the MAF sensor.
Hope it doesn't cost you too much to put right.
Simon
induction kit can cause excessive timnig to be run and it to run lean on standard ecu map, as it effect the load the ecu sees via the MAF sensor.
Hope it doesn't cost you too much to put right.
Simon
21 July 2005, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rochey
Mmmm - tried that and there is some blow back pressure actually......one guy who has rebuilt a few Scoobs thinks one of the pistons has been holed....but its totally std, save for a Bailey dump valve and induction kit, no superchip or daft boost and its been run on nothing but Shell and Esso SUL and the oil has been changed every 3k...so how can that happen? Its done 73k btw.
Just after it happened there was smoke that was coming out of the side of the engine by the exhaust...I can't see any holes on the block though!
Just after it happened there was smoke that was coming out of the side of the engine by the exhaust...I can't see any holes on the block though!
NS04
21 July 2005, 07:23 PM
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A compression check is an easy thing to do and probably should be your first move, but given the relatively easy life the car has had I wouldn't think that's what's happened.
It may be a maf sensor failure, or indeed a split boost hose from the turbo to the intercooler. i would say that it's just running very rich and the misfire is caused by the excessive fuel. it will also cause black and blue smoke, as the fuel can wash the oil off the bores into the combustion chamber.
You may need to whip the plugs out and clean them before it will run properly at all. Try unplugging the maf sensor, and see if it improves, with the MAF unplugged the ECU will run on a failsafe map using the MAP sensor, and should run reasonably well off load for idle and light revving. If it is much better like this check your boost hoses and if the are okay, then the MAF is the likely culprit.
Paul
It may be a maf sensor failure, or indeed a split boost hose from the turbo to the intercooler. i would say that it's just running very rich and the misfire is caused by the excessive fuel. it will also cause black and blue smoke, as the fuel can wash the oil off the bores into the combustion chamber.
You may need to whip the plugs out and clean them before it will run properly at all. Try unplugging the maf sensor, and see if it improves, with the MAF unplugged the ECU will run on a failsafe map using the MAP sensor, and should run reasonably well off load for idle and light revving. If it is much better like this check your boost hoses and if the are okay, then the MAF is the likely culprit.
Paul
21 July 2005, 08:23 PM
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As Vegescoob says do a quick check on the plugs before commiting to parting with ya folding stuff.
Mine started running well ragged [smoked like a bitch when idling, smell of petrol etc.] took it to the dealer went for a run...nothing came up on the laptop. Got back and he took a quick look under the bonnet put the cable on propoerly and bingo back to purring cat....of dog
If it aint that then get someone to look at it.
Roo
Mine started running well ragged [smoked like a bitch when idling, smell of petrol etc.] took it to the dealer went for a run...nothing came up on the laptop. Got back and he took a quick look under the bonnet put the cable on propoerly and bingo back to purring cat....of dog
If it aint that then get someone to look at it.
Roo
08 August 2005, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jolly Green Monster
you cannot call it standard having fitted induction kit and dump valve..
induction kit can cause excessive timnig to be run and it to run lean on standard ecu map, as it effect the load the ecu sees via the MAF sensor.
Hope it doesn't cost you too much to put right.
Simon
induction kit can cause excessive timnig to be run and it to run lean on standard ecu map, as it effect the load the ecu sees via the MAF sensor.
Hope it doesn't cost you too much to put right.
Simon
It has turned out that No.2 piston is holed in two places,on the edge.
Many people who know about these things all have different theories, but subaru seem to think it may be the induction Kit - so that's come off as has the dump valve!
I've had an exchange bottom end from Subaru and also a new cam, as the round retaining lip at one end has snapped off for some reason though the garage doesn't think it was related to this failure and may have been broke for ages. Think it may be worth a new MAF sensor as well??
Currently, the running total is at £2400.
Once its back up and runnig, I'll get a knock and Lambda link, just in case.
Cheers,
Rochey.
08 August 2005, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jjones
if subaru think it is the induction kit presumably it has contaminated the MAF making it run lean. so a new maf would be adviseable - they cost about £80.
10 August 2005, 01:22 PM
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Some piccies of the offending items......
http://photobucket.com/albums/a15/rochey_/
The more I think of it..the more I'm going to blame the induction filter and Maf sensor!
http://photobucket.com/albums/a15/rochey_/
The more I think of it..the more I'm going to blame the induction filter and Maf sensor!
10 August 2005, 02:21 PM
#19
Based on my unpleasent experience I would say the induction kit is definatly to blame. Did you not notice any kind of erratic idling before this occurred?
When I first bought a scoob I had two engine failures in three months due to a faulty MAF sensor. Both got replaced under warranty the second time however the car was picked up from the repair ,drovin 11 miles and traded for an RB5.
I now build my own engines and have just finished my latest and rolling roaded it after the run in period it made 420bhp and 398ftlbs on optimax:d
When I bought my first scoob I didnt have a bloody clue.
Keep reading on here dude and you'll learn to spot the signs for such things.
Hope the new engine does you well.
When I first bought a scoob I had two engine failures in three months due to a faulty MAF sensor. Both got replaced under warranty the second time however the car was picked up from the repair ,drovin 11 miles and traded for an RB5.
I now build my own engines and have just finished my latest and rolling roaded it after the run in period it made 420bhp and 398ftlbs on optimax:d
When I bought my first scoob I didnt have a bloody clue.
Keep reading on here dude and you'll learn to spot the signs for such things.
Hope the new engine does you well.
10 August 2005, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dazdavies
Based on my unpleasent experience I would say the induction kit is definatly to blame. Did you not notice any kind of erratic idling before this occurred?
When I first bought a scoob I had two engine failures in three months due to a faulty MAF sensor. Both got replaced under warranty the second time however the car was picked up from the repair ,drovin 11 miles and traded for an RB5.
I now build my own engines and have just finished my latest and rolling roaded it after the run in period it made 420bhp and 398ftlbs on optimax:d
When I bought my first scoob I didnt have a bloody clue.
Keep reading on here dude and you'll learn to spot the signs for such things.
Hope the new engine does you well.
When I first bought a scoob I had two engine failures in three months due to a faulty MAF sensor. Both got replaced under warranty the second time however the car was picked up from the repair ,drovin 11 miles and traded for an RB5.
I now build my own engines and have just finished my latest and rolling roaded it after the run in period it made 420bhp and 398ftlbs on optimax:d
When I bought my first scoob I didnt have a bloody clue.
Keep reading on here dude and you'll learn to spot the signs for such things.
Hope the new engine does you well.
Cheers Daz - you live and learn I suppose - pity its been such an expensive way to learn though!
As an engine builder then, how would you go about running an engine in revs wise?
I was going to keep it below 3000 rpm for 600 miles, change the oil (a semi synthetic and then fully synthetic) and then build the revs up...but now not sure of how to build the revs or when to change the oil etc - what are your thoughts? Would you flush it between oil changes?
And yes, it was missing a little bit now and again.........
10 August 2005, 03:36 PM
#21
Engine run in is simple, first 1500 miles very easy using castrol GTX, or other mineral oil. No higher than 4000 rpm and without access to the ecu you need to limit boost. Easiest way to do this is to take the small vacuum hose to the right of the t piece near the turbo completely off and a replace with straight through piece of samco with no restrictor in. Dont throw the old pipe away as you will put it back on when you have run the engine in. This will limit the boost to the factory wastegate spring pressure if its a UK car its around 0.5 bar if STI around 0.7 I think
Make sure you vary your revs in the first 1500 miles worst thing you could do is sit on the motorway @ 4000rpm. Just keep changing gears and vary the revs.
Get to 1500 miles change the oil and filter for some synthetic oil. I use mobil 1 15w /50.
Dont forget to use a new sump plug washer.
Put the vacuum hose with the restrictor back on and you're ready to go and drive it normally.
Hope that helps
Make sure you vary your revs in the first 1500 miles worst thing you could do is sit on the motorway @ 4000rpm. Just keep changing gears and vary the revs.
Get to 1500 miles change the oil and filter for some synthetic oil. I use mobil 1 15w /50.
Dont forget to use a new sump plug washer.
Put the vacuum hose with the restrictor back on and you're ready to go and drive it normally.
Hope that helps
10 August 2005, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dazdavies
Engine run in is simple, first 1500 miles very easy using castrol GTX, or other mineral oil. No higher than 4000 rpm and without access to the ecu you need to limit boost. Easiest way to do this is to take the small vacuum hose to the right of the t piece near the turbo completely off and a replace with straight through piece of samco with no restrictor in. Dont throw the old pipe away as you will put it back on when you have run the engine in. This will limit the boost to the factory wastegate spring pressure if its a UK car its around 0.5 bar if STI around 0.7 I think
Make sure you vary your revs in the first 1500 miles worst thing you could do is sit on the motorway @ 4000rpm. Just keep changing gears and vary the revs.
Get to 1500 miles change the oil and filter for some synthetic oil. I use mobil 1 15w /50.
Dont forget to use a new sump plug washer.
Put the vacuum hose with the restrictor back on and you're ready to go and drive it normally.
Hope that helps
Make sure you vary your revs in the first 1500 miles worst thing you could do is sit on the motorway @ 4000rpm. Just keep changing gears and vary the revs.
Get to 1500 miles change the oil and filter for some synthetic oil. I use mobil 1 15w /50.
Dont forget to use a new sump plug washer.
Put the vacuum hose with the restrictor back on and you're ready to go and drive it normally.
Hope that helps
11 August 2005, 10:25 AM
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11 August 2005, 10:54 AM
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Nice one!
You could underdstand how that confused the hell out of me!
Btw - the guy who has rebuilt my engine has put fully synthetic in it for some reason - I live about ten miles from the garage and was going to drive it home and then change the oil - any thoughts?
Cheers, R.
You could underdstand how that confused the hell out of me!
Btw - the guy who has rebuilt my engine has put fully synthetic in it for some reason - I live about ten miles from the garage and was going to drive it home and then change the oil - any thoughts?
Cheers, R.
11 August 2005, 06:58 PM
#26
Originally Posted by rochey
Nice one!
You could underdstand how that confused the hell out of me!
Btw - the guy who has rebuilt my engine has put fully synthetic in it for some reason - I live about ten miles from the garage and was going to drive it home and then change the oil - any thoughts?
Cheers, R.
You could underdstand how that confused the hell out of me!
Btw - the guy who has rebuilt my engine has put fully synthetic in it for some reason - I live about ten miles from the garage and was going to drive it home and then change the oil - any thoughts?
Cheers, R.
Yes Mate,
Using the current oil will not bed the new parts in properly.
Steady drive home, drop the oil, new filter, new sump plug washer. 4.5 litres of castrol GTX and then 1500 steady but varied revs worth of miles.
Then change for mobile 1 15/50.
You'll be fine after that
19 August 2005, 03:36 AM
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Hi chaps, Newbie here 
Daz is indeed correct about running in with a really good mineral oil.
He has a mate who works for an Oil company who is a top bloke
I run an engine as previously mentioned varying the load constantly without labouring the engine and gradually buzz it through the revs towards the end of the bedding in period.
I did however have a Honda fireblade a few years back which i ran in when it was brand new. Ran is steady like ya do. Superbike did an article on running engines in. They Dyno'd lots of bikes and asked the owners how they ran them in? Some of the owners admitted to not running them in at all and just kanned them out of the krate! Like a lot of bikers do actually. They found these bikes produced more power and actually used less oil than the bikes which were run in propperly!! It was the same idea that the rings seal better etc.
Would you armed with this information go out and hammer your pride and joy straight out of the box? Well i know i certainly wouldnt
Daz is indeed correct about running in with a really good mineral oil.
He has a mate who works for an Oil company who is a top bloke
I run an engine as previously mentioned varying the load constantly without labouring the engine and gradually buzz it through the revs towards the end of the bedding in period.
I did however have a Honda fireblade a few years back which i ran in when it was brand new. Ran is steady like ya do. Superbike did an article on running engines in. They Dyno'd lots of bikes and asked the owners how they ran them in? Some of the owners admitted to not running them in at all and just kanned them out of the krate! Like a lot of bikers do actually. They found these bikes produced more power and actually used less oil than the bikes which were run in propperly!! It was the same idea that the rings seal better etc.
Would you armed with this information go out and hammer your pride and joy straight out of the box? Well i know i certainly wouldnt
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