greenprodrive

Hi,

I've got the engine out of my 98UK turbo,and I'm trying to get the heads off, which means the cams (and cam sprockets), need to be removed.

The problem is , the cam sprockets have a large "hex" (approx 80mm) shape as part of thier construction, and this needs to be held, while you then use a 17mmm socket to undo the nut.

On one side, the large hex is actually recessed, so even if I had some an adjustable spanner that big, it wouldn't fit.

I've investigated this, and there is a special tool available (I looked in the subaru workshop manual), however ... Subaru .. "..WON'T SELL THE TOOL TO THE PUBLIC"

Help - anyone know where I can get it ? or any other suggestions ?

Cheers - Mark

RON

You could try undoing the sprocket retaining nut/bolt with a cambelt still on the front and then put a spanner/socket on the crankshaft bolt......

greenprodrive

Would that not put the belt under undue pressure ?

(What does everyone else do ? .. I can't be the only one who wants to take the head off).

Cheers - Mark

p1mark

use a large spanner (or adjustable) on the cam casting hex. the V5's have a large cap head on the sprocket bolt. use a big allen key with a long bar over the end, or if yours are a hex bolt use a socket and big breaker. they dont have masses of torque on them, and they are not loctited, just the big bolt head area makes them sticky.

if you have a compressor and air gun, even better!

p1mark

forgot to add that you really should turn rhe engine over so that the crank pulley marks line up (pistons will then be halfway up bores) and remove the belt first.

cant damage belt or whack pistons into valves this way.

greenprodrive

Hi mate, thanks for the reply.

"use a large spanner (or adjustable) on the cam casting hex. "

I assume you mean the hex shape which is part of the actual cam-shaft, quite near the sprocket end, (usually coverred by the rocker cover of course)

"the V5's have a large cap head on the sprocket bolt. use a big allen key with a long bar over the end, or if yours are a hex bolt use a socket and big breaker. they dont have masses of torque on them, and they are not loctited, just the big bolt head area makes them sticky.

Mines a 17MM hex. No problem there. I've got a 2 foot long torque wrench. Should be enough I guess.

if you have a compressor and air gun, even better!
forgot to add that you really should turn rhe engine over so that the crank pulley marks line up (pistons will then be halfway up bores) and remove the belt first.

Right - The belt is already off (as per me following the service manual instructions). Just a thought.. Should I rotate the crank shaft in a certain direction to line it up ? I'm paranoid about bending the valves now (!). When I removed the belt, I just "removed" it, without getting the crank to a certain position first. (Did I make a mistake there?).

Finally , my usual technique for stubborn stuff is "blowtorch and wd40" technique. The cam sprockets look plastic, so I guess there is no place for blowtorch on this one.

Cheers - Mark

cant damage belt or whack pistons into valves this way.

p1mark

if your belts already off, first thing is to turn each cam until it is "off cam" i.e the base circle is adjacent to the bucket.

line the crank sprocket mark up with the oil pump mark as shown in pic. then there is no way you can collide a valve with a piston. you are then free to get on with trying to get the sprockets off knowing if you slip with a spanner you wont damage anything.

yes, im talking about the cast hex on the cam. dont use a blowtorch as its not required!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...k/DSC00336.jpg

greenprodrive

Thanks mate, feel much safer .. Just so I am sure what OFF CAM is.. I think any of the first 3 positions on this diagram are "off cam" ,and position 4 is ON cam. True ? (or is it actually just position 2) http://www.freepichosting.info/hpics...8offcam340.jpg

Cheers - Mark

p1mark

like the pic!

1,2,3 are all off cam as you say. as long as you have clearance to the bucket.

greenprodrive

- Got all the cams "OFF CAM" (clearance against all buckets .. no probs)
- Crank Sprocket lined up against water pump mark (as per your piccy).

..then
Adjustable (max 250mm) spanner, on hex of cam casting
17mm socket on front nut, with two foot long torque wrench.

NONE of them would move. I looked at the torque wrench, and I was applyng 140 LB/Ft of torque.

They just will not budge. (They are meant to loosen anti-clockwise aren't they ?)

Do you think I might have to put out an all points alert for the proper tool?

Chers - Mark

p1mark

they are only torqued up to 75NM IIRC, but the heads do 'stick' on the plastic. they are normal right handed thread. i wonder if some numpty has loctited them or something? use another pair of hands on the spanner and put a big bit of pipe on the bar!

greenprodrive

Yes, I reckon someone has over tightened, or loctited or something.

I've tried the big bit of bat, I've even tried making a make**** stopper for the adjustable spaner. .. I won't go into the details..

I think I need to search for the tool (or norrow, or make one .. how the hell I do that , God knows .. maybe now is the time to learn how to weld !).

Cheers - Mark

Kenny.S

Someone correct me if im wrong with this but, i did a short engine change on a 99 spec uk car for a mate didn't have any special tools to hold the pulleys. As i recall if you take the cam covers off there is a hex on the cam at the pulley end? Cant remember the size but i think its about 24mm. I ground down the sides a little so it wouldn't mark the head, got someone to hold this firmly and then simply undid the bolts, which where allen bolts incidently.

kenny

greenprodrive

Hi Kenny, you are right with all of that . (In theory).

In practice, mine won't shift (see details above), ... hence the conclusion that I might need "the tool"

Cheers - Mark

Kenny.S

Sorry mate didn't realise when you said you were using an adjustable spanner that you had it on the mentioned hex on the cam, one of ones i took of where stupidly tight too. If i recall we had so much force on it that the allen key stripped the hex inside the head of the bolt, it didn't slip it just tore it right out. At this point we accepted defeat and had to break the plastic cam cover off (bought a new one from subaru, was pretty cheap as i remember £20?) then took the cam to a machine shop where they milled the top of the bolt off with out damaging the pulley or the cam. I fear if you were to use the special tool which holds the pulley you would risk breaking it, after all it's not meant to be that tight.


Kenny

greenprodrive

I wish I could find the ****** who tightened it up in the first place. Jesus. .. Update .. Bought a 24mm spanner today , hoping that might just be a better more stable fit than the adjustable spanner.

Guess what .. the hex is 25mm.

B******

XK-R

I have all the cam tools NOW but didn't always use too.

Easiest way is time the engine back up again properly with cambelt and tensioners all installed. Now this will lock the cams in place. Get the 17mm socket on them and a 22mm socket on the crank pulley to stop the engine turning. Now you should be able to undo the cam wheels.

Did this for a while then got the official tools.

Otherways when I had didn't need the cam wheels again was (for my own engine!) to just smash them with a hammer. Used set cost £20.

I do have the tools but at the other end of the country otherwise I would lend them to you....

greenprodrive

HI mate, thanks for the reply.

Couple of thoughts ..
1) If these things don't come off at 140LB/FT , then I guess by doing what you suggested I might end up having to buy a new belt, (someone else mentioned that you should never re-use the belt once it has been put through the process of being used this way , i.e. locking so you can get cam sprockets off).
2) Roughly what did the tool(s) cost you and where did you get them , do you remember ?

Many Thanks - Mark

greenprodrive

Bought a 25mm spanner. Realise now that adjustables (which I've often used on large nuts), are just not as good as the 2pucker" sized spanner. (A rule I've always applied to smaller stuff, .. we'll you live and learn).

The 25mm spanner was no good on it's own.

I had to :-
- Heat the end of the sprocket bolt with a blow torch.
- Set up my engine crane (Yes .. engine crane), and use that to act as an "arm" for the spanner (Details on request)
- Get Debs, my girlfriend, to SIT on the arm of the crane, because when I was trying to torqe the sprocket bolt to undo it, it lifted both the crane, and the engine stand.

(Did this 4 times in various guises .. once for each bolt).

This engine had a rebuild at API some time ago.

I do hope it wasn't them who tightened these bolts to what I estimate to be in excess of 200LB/FT.

.. oh well, onward and upward !

Thanks to everyone for helpful suggestions, and if anyone has this problem again, get in touch , I might be able to advise.

Mark

ticky

So you finally got them off. I was thinking you might have to smash them off & replace all 4 cam wheels.
Blow torch usually works on all stubborn bolts. As for the engine crane method, thats a new one.