Trebor69

Hello All

I am thinking about fitting some better seat belts to my MY93 JDM WRX

I allready have cobra seats fitted with two holes at top for these belts.

I was thinking of fitting the two lap ends to the rear seat rail mounts and then fitting the rear point (or two if I get 4 point) where the origional rear seat belts mount.. This is slightly offset from centre of front seats I think.

Is there any real safety diffo between 3 and 4 point belts I.E 1 or 2 rear bolt fixings..

Any advice from anyone who has fitted these would be helpful

Cheers

Rob

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

i've fitted a 4 point to the exact same points you've mentioned and all is well (i haven't gone thru the windscren yet anyway)

i went for the 4 point coz i think the only way to make a 3 points shoulder straps comfortable is if the rear fixing point is directly behind you? rather than off to the side if you went for the rear seat belt points.

i may be wrong on this as i've never seen a 3 point in a scoob, but for the extra couple of quid i'd go for the 4 point worth getting the clip off option harness aswell so you can unhook it if you want to get people in the back

Vegescoob

Great care needed here! Do you know anybody with a competition licence? If so they will have a copy of the Motorsports Association Bluebook. This has technical info for fitting of 4 point seatbelts. There is a problem with 4 point 'belts. If they are not fitted and worn correctly there is a risk of "submarining" ie. you can slide down in them in an impact. This is why on competition cars a 5 or 6 point belt with a crutch strap is preferred and in competition the belts are pulled up really tight! I know I've done it.

grahamfrary

As Vegescoob says, ou should really read the Blue Book regarding fitting of competition belts which starts off "All seat Safety Belts must .... be fitted in accordance with the manufacturers instructions." Also "The anchorage points to the rear should be positioned so that the strap from the shoulder is as near horizontal as possible. It should not be located on the floor behind the driver/co-driver." This is to reduce the risk of 'submarining'.
Also I think technically full harness belts would fail an MOT on the 'single-handed operation' requirement. Road cars with only competition belts would not be a good idea IMHO.

Graham

Vegescoob

Yes MOT could be a problem. My old Sunbeam roadrally car got through with a tester who understood rally cars. It also had an hydraulic handbrake but with the cables still on. Thing is often front competition belts can use the mounting points for the rear belts so no rear passengers. If the comp. belts are attached anywhere else plating of mounting points may be needed again refer to MSA Bluebook. Yes the single handed operation thing is debatable. I think the Yellow Book recommends a buckle as per road belts but nobody uses it. Aircraft style turnbuckles are used. Lots of rallycars in this country need MOTs and they all seem to get them!

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Full harness belts are absolutely commonplace on some cars though - I fitted 4 point harnesses to my Westfield and it passed two MOTs at an exceptionally picky MOT centre. Maybe there are different regs for kit or low volume cars?

The problem I had with a 4 point harness is the tendency for the lap strap to be pulled up across my stomach as soon as the shoulder straps are tightened. Although this tendency depends somewhat on the lower mounting points, a 6-point is much better in this regard.

Also bear in mind that they're actually not very comfortable or even effective unless pulled quite tight against the body, so I hope you can reach all the controls and can see properly all round the car without needing to lean forward, ever.

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

very good points about the submarining, have given thought to this myself.

isn't there a minimum angle the shoulder strap belts have to be when fixed? (if this makes any difference?)

if tightened up corectly i have felt that the lap straps don't pull up at all when tightening the shoulder straps, obviously this is a 'feel' thing so i'm not saying it's ok on the safety side, as i wouldn't know TBH

MOT wise, i've had no problems. maybe as the existing seatbelt is in place and this is all they test?

i only really use mine in the summer as i can't be arsed to alter all the straps for the extra thickness of jumpers/coats etc. for winter. but i think a harness in the scooby bucket seat is very comfortable and i really do prefer the feel of being tight in the seat. all the while my long arms can reach the stereo i'm ok

Vegescoob

hoskib yes max and min angles in MSA Bluebook. Mine not with me at mo. Try MSA website may be there. As AndyC 722 says lapstrap is what it says and should be over lap so pelvis takes forces not internal organs under ribs. Rally crews on road sections loosen comp belts for comfort and visibility which may be less safe than standard belts cos on ratchet lock pretensioner or airbag and prob very sore if thrown against loose belt with force. Plus comp seats have side slots for lapstrap to come through in rightish place.

Trebor69

Cheers for informative replies lads

3 points then are out the question unless I fit new bolting places directly in centre of seats.

So I would therefore look at fitting 4 points with the rear two belts fitted to the existing rear seat belt fixing point (so slightly offset) and the two front lap belt mounting points going where the seat frame bolts to car at the rear of frame......

what are you opionions on this, has anybody done this...

I do have... dont laugh, very short legs and average sized arms so everything will still be in reach...

I will be keeping the standard front belts, so when I have rear passengers the people in front can use existing belts and this should sort any MOT problems out.

Any more info will be greatly appreciated, As I do want to do this properly.. reason being,,, very quick car .... and no Airbags!!

Cheers

Rob

Vegescoob

BTW Trebor 69 I hope you're getting new belts sh comp belts might have been stretched or had stiching strained in an off. Some competition scrutineers say stretched belts feel different to touch from ok ones. If you are near any competition equipment suppliers or rally prep firms go see them I'm sure they will be able to advise ref type and fitting.

Trebor69

Yes Vegescoob, Deffo new ones without a doubt

Thinging of these

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/catalo...CODE=SAB04694B

Whats your opinion on them?

Rob

Vegescoob

Hi Trebor69 First a thought ref insurance co. I don't know what they think of comp belts on road cars if you should heaven forbid have an off with them on. I've only had comp belts on comp cars and the insurance co. has known cos they were on tech details of car. The belts you mention are ok but being only 2" wide need harness pads to be comfortable when really tight. Most comp cars now have 3" wide belts. Also the belts shown are not FIA approved and can't be used in international competition. Which you may want to consider ref how good they are. If you can get hold of a Bluebook or look on the MSA website see if there is a Scrutineer near you give them a bell and ask if they will look at your car and give you advise. Scrutineers know about these things cos they have to check all comp cars before every event.

McCARTHY

my only imput would be has the car got a roll cage. if your car ended up on the roof with no cage and normal seat belts as the roof collapeses the body is able to move down and you are less likey to get any injurey from the roof caving in and onto your head. with any harness it is designed to hold you in place so in a head on thats great because ur fine, different story if you end up on the roof, because you are held in place there is nowhere for your head to go as the roof caves in ?????