"old" Lotus Elan Ignition Woes
11 February 2004, 12:48 PM
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"old" Lotus Elan Ignition Woes
Can anyone help PLEASE???
Lotus Elan SE S4 1969
Engine # C22692
After a total restoration, including a professional re-build on the engine (using all new ignition components, the engine was timed with a strobe, and then crypton tuned. This tuning found a weak spark at the plug, the plugs were all replaced.
The car was driven approximately 50 miles, performing well, and then suddenly cut out. No bumps, puddles, etc. The fault was traced to the ignition.
Replacing one by one, new parts for brand new parts; one coil, distributor cap, rotor arm, 2 sets of silicon HT leads & 4 sets of plugs. The distributor and C.D.I. was bench tested by the manufacturer, (passed OK)
The engine earth was suspect, so an additional ground to the chassis was installed, with a result of 0 ohms.
If the spark plugs are connected directly to the coil using the C.D.I. on the distributor to collapse the L.T. coil, there is a huge spark, but as soon as brand new HT leads are connected to the plugs through the brand new distributor cap and arm, there is little or no spark at the plugs.
The rotor arm is tested, insulated from the earth of the distributor.
Some of the new plugs show continuity between the lead end and the tip, after having been in the engine and turned over once or twice.
When the new cap/rotor/leads combination was first installed, the engine fired up (finally!), three times in a row, but then, without having been driven anywhere the fourth and all following occasions there is no sign of life.
My questions;
1. What is “killing the plugs?
2. Where is the spark going?
3. Where do I go from here?
Many many thanks for any suggestions!!
Lotus Elan SE S4 1969
Engine # C22692
After a total restoration, including a professional re-build on the engine (using all new ignition components, the engine was timed with a strobe, and then crypton tuned. This tuning found a weak spark at the plug, the plugs were all replaced.
The car was driven approximately 50 miles, performing well, and then suddenly cut out. No bumps, puddles, etc. The fault was traced to the ignition.
Replacing one by one, new parts for brand new parts; one coil, distributor cap, rotor arm, 2 sets of silicon HT leads & 4 sets of plugs. The distributor and C.D.I. was bench tested by the manufacturer, (passed OK)
The engine earth was suspect, so an additional ground to the chassis was installed, with a result of 0 ohms.
If the spark plugs are connected directly to the coil using the C.D.I. on the distributor to collapse the L.T. coil, there is a huge spark, but as soon as brand new HT leads are connected to the plugs through the brand new distributor cap and arm, there is little or no spark at the plugs.
The rotor arm is tested, insulated from the earth of the distributor.
Some of the new plugs show continuity between the lead end and the tip, after having been in the engine and turned over once or twice.
When the new cap/rotor/leads combination was first installed, the engine fired up (finally!), three times in a row, but then, without having been driven anywhere the fourth and all following occasions there is no sign of life.
My questions;
1. What is “killing the plugs?
2. Where is the spark going?
3. Where do I go from here?
Many many thanks for any suggestions!!
11 February 2004, 06:48 PM
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snatchblock
Originally Posted by snatchblock
Can anyone help PLEASE???
Lotus Elan SE S4 1969
Engine # C22692
After a total restoration, including a professional re-build on the engine (using all new ignition components, the engine was timed with a strobe, and then crypton tuned. This tuning found a weak spark at the plug, the plugs were all replaced.
The car was driven approximately 50 miles, performing well, and then suddenly cut out. No bumps, puddles, etc. The fault was traced to the ignition.
Replacing one by one, new parts for brand new parts; one coil, distributor cap, rotor arm, 2 sets of silicon HT leads & 4 sets of plugs. The distributor and C.D.I. was bench tested by the manufacturer, (passed OK)
The engine earth was suspect, so an additional ground to the chassis was installed, with a result of 0 ohms.
If the spark plugs are connected directly to the coil using the C.D.I. on the distributor to collapse the L.T. coil, there is a huge spark, but as soon as brand new HT leads are connected to the plugs through the brand new distributor cap and arm, there is little or no spark at the plugs.
The rotor arm is tested, insulated from the earth of the distributor.
Some of the new plugs show continuity between the lead end and the tip, after having been in the engine and turned over once or twice.
When the new cap/rotor/leads combination was first installed, the engine fired up (finally!), three times in a row, but then, without having been driven anywhere the fourth and all following occasions there is no sign of life.
My questions;
1. What is “killing the plugs?
2. Where is the spark going?
3. Where do I go from here?
Many many thanks for any suggestions!!
Lotus Elan SE S4 1969
Engine # C22692
After a total restoration, including a professional re-build on the engine (using all new ignition components, the engine was timed with a strobe, and then crypton tuned. This tuning found a weak spark at the plug, the plugs were all replaced.
The car was driven approximately 50 miles, performing well, and then suddenly cut out. No bumps, puddles, etc. The fault was traced to the ignition.
Replacing one by one, new parts for brand new parts; one coil, distributor cap, rotor arm, 2 sets of silicon HT leads & 4 sets of plugs. The distributor and C.D.I. was bench tested by the manufacturer, (passed OK)
The engine earth was suspect, so an additional ground to the chassis was installed, with a result of 0 ohms.
If the spark plugs are connected directly to the coil using the C.D.I. on the distributor to collapse the L.T. coil, there is a huge spark, but as soon as brand new HT leads are connected to the plugs through the brand new distributor cap and arm, there is little or no spark at the plugs.
The rotor arm is tested, insulated from the earth of the distributor.
Some of the new plugs show continuity between the lead end and the tip, after having been in the engine and turned over once or twice.
When the new cap/rotor/leads combination was first installed, the engine fired up (finally!), three times in a row, but then, without having been driven anywhere the fourth and all following occasions there is no sign of life.
My questions;
1. What is “killing the plugs?
2. Where is the spark going?
3. Where do I go from here?
Many many thanks for any suggestions!!
Have you checked the distributor itself for play....?.
The distributor shaft wears the bushes and the then shaft rotates in a oval pattern rather than straight round...This then gives a correct pionts gap only on one or two spark plugs ...But depending on the firing order/rotation...May not be in the correct mark for the distributor....To check this,Hold the shaft at the top ..And try pushing it at 3,6 & 9 o`clock possitions and see if you can detect wear...Another way is to check the points gap on each of the lobe high points..To see if the gap is consistant...I take it it still has the points fitted....?.
Thats the place i would look first anyway....Kev.
I have just realized..You have said the distributor was bench checked...Was this for wear...?. or ..That it was working..ie..Giving a spark....?.
Last edited by torment; 11 February 2004 at 06:52 PM. Reason: missunderstanding
11 February 2004, 07:18 PM
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Hi, thanks for the thought! The distributor is brand new, and was back at the manufacturer for a check to see that it was sparking correctly. I suppose that it is possible a new dizzy might be set up wrong? We have tried with both the CDI and points fitted, same result. Today I managed to get her started, running a little rough, (but not accurately timed) after running for about 4/5 mins the engine just quit, did not stumble, just shut down as if the key had been turned. The bonnet is off, so no heat build up, the car was not moved, so no bumps/vibration. Cannot get it started again for love nor money!! I
At least the scooby starts!
Buc B
At least the scooby starts!
Buc B
Originally Posted by torment
Have you checked the distributor itself for play....?.
The distributor shaft wears the bushes and the then shaft rotates in a oval pattern rather than straight round...This then gives a correct pionts gap only on one or two spark plugs ...But depending on the firing order/rotation...May not be in the correct mark for the distributor....To check this,Hold the shaft at the top ..And try pushing it at 3,6 & 9 o`clock possitions and see if you can detect wear...Another way is to check the points gap on each of the lobe high points..To see if the gap is consistant...I take it it still has the points fitted....?.
Thats the place i would look first anyway....Kev.
I have just realized..You have said the distributor was bench checked...Was this for wear...?. or ..That it was working..ie..Giving a spark....?.
The distributor shaft wears the bushes and the then shaft rotates in a oval pattern rather than straight round...This then gives a correct pionts gap only on one or two spark plugs ...But depending on the firing order/rotation...May not be in the correct mark for the distributor....To check this,Hold the shaft at the top ..And try pushing it at 3,6 & 9 o`clock possitions and see if you can detect wear...Another way is to check the points gap on each of the lobe high points..To see if the gap is consistant...I take it it still has the points fitted....?.
Thats the place i would look first anyway....Kev.
I have just realized..You have said the distributor was bench checked...Was this for wear...?. or ..That it was working..ie..Giving a spark....?.
11 February 2004, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by snatchblock
Hi, thanks for the thought! The distributor is brand new, and was back at the manufacturer for a check to see that it was sparking correctly. I suppose that it is possible a new dizzy might be set up wrong? We have tried with both the CDI and points fitted, same result. Today I managed to get her started, running a little rough, (but not accurately timed) after running for about 4/5 mins the engine just quit, did not stumble, just shut down as if the key had been turned. The bonnet is off, so no heat build up, the car was not moved, so no bumps/vibration. Cannot get it started again for love nor money!! I
At least the scooby starts!
Buc B
At least the scooby starts!
Buc B
11 February 2004, 08:32 PM
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Believe me any suggestions are welcome. The car has just been rebuilt, by me, driven less than 70 miles. More to the point the guy helping me is my helicopter mechanic, he keeps checking (and redoing!) all the stuff I do!
12 February 2004, 01:54 PM
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Have you got the right dizzy for the car?
IIRC there are more than 4 elan dizzys some with vaccuum advance, some without, some are discontinued.
Have you got Strombergs, Webers or Dellortos? Different dizzy for each IIRC
Got mine from Miles Wilkins at FIbreglass Services, knows his stuff. This was some years ago though.
Elans, beautiful cars, when they are running, pigs the rest of the time.
HTH
Steve Wardle
IIRC there are more than 4 elan dizzys some with vaccuum advance, some without, some are discontinued.
Have you got Strombergs, Webers or Dellortos? Different dizzy for each IIRC
Got mine from Miles Wilkins at FIbreglass Services, knows his stuff. This was some years ago though.
Elans, beautiful cars, when they are running, pigs the rest of the time.
HTH
Steve Wardle
12 February 2004, 02:17 PM
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Things to try/check is the coil wired to the correct sides as if wired the wrong way round reduces the output by apprx 20%. Also is the coil getting hot. I've had this on both an Elan S3 and a mini, where the car would start and run for 20 miles then cut out, waited 10 mins the car would start and then cut out again, this got progressively worse unit the car wouldn't start however there was a poor spark. Also are you sure you have the correct dizzy cap and rota arm for the replacement dizzy.
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12 February 2004, 04:51 PM
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Steve PPP,
My thoughts, and as it is the only thing that we have not replaced in the ignition circuit, suspect, BUT the car does run. Surely if it was the wrong dizzy it would not start at all? Or at best run roughly.When it was running previously it was smooth! I am using Paul Matty, great service, and I bought my first Lotus from him 20+yrs ago! I think the Lotus makes a great garage ornament! I do wish I could get it out though!
My thoughts, and as it is the only thing that we have not replaced in the ignition circuit, suspect, BUT the car does run. Surely if it was the wrong dizzy it would not start at all? Or at best run roughly.When it was running previously it was smooth! I am using Paul Matty, great service, and I bought my first Lotus from him 20+yrs ago! I think the Lotus makes a great garage ornament! I do wish I could get it out though!
12 February 2004, 04:53 PM
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Damage,
Coil is wired correctly, and runs in another car, Golf, used as a test bed. Coil does get hot, I think, been a long time since it ran long enough to check. This is also new though. What would be causing the heat in the coil, didn't get hot in the golf!
Coil is wired correctly, and runs in another car, Golf, used as a test bed. Coil does get hot, I think, been a long time since it ran long enough to check. This is also new though. What would be causing the heat in the coil, didn't get hot in the golf!
12 February 2004, 05:39 PM
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Faulty/missing ballast resistor??
Bought my 1st Elan from Paul Matty about 20 years ago! (Plus 2S/5)
Steve
Bought my 1st Elan from Paul Matty about 20 years ago! (Plus 2S/5)
Steve
Last edited by Steve PPP; 12 February 2004 at 05:42 PM.
13 February 2004, 11:01 AM
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Sorry, should have read plus 2s 130/5, can't remember my elan models.
Next car was a Lotus Elan Sprint DHC, Gold Leaf of course!
Also had an Elise.
Confirmed Lotus nut.
Steve
Next car was a Lotus Elan Sprint DHC, Gold Leaf of course!
Also had an Elise.
Confirmed Lotus nut.
Steve
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