Trout

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone here fitted HKS gear and then had it on the rolling road? Thoughts before commiting, etc.

A kit has been offered, HKS Induction Kit (cone filter to PC ) Hiper back box, Air/Fuel regulator, Iridium plugs and Electronic Valve Control (wastegate, I think) that promises 330 bhp from an STi V.

Sounds good....£1500 ish plus VAT on the car.


David

PS BPM, no need to respond, I have read all your responses elsewhere!

R19KET

David,

Be very carefull going down this route.I suspect that the 'air/fuel reg' is actually a
FCD,(fuel cut defencer).If you just try and run more boost on a scooby, the ecu cuts off the fuel as a safety measure.The fcd fools the ecu making it think it's running less boost,so it doesn't cut the fuel.Then you will probably need another gadget to actually adjust the mixture,and another to make sure the ignition is correct,ect',ect'.The last Scooby that went the HKS route is sitting with melted pistons,but he did have 335 bhp for a while.

I don't know where you live,but if you have access to one of the companies that can remap your own ecu(on the rolling road,or with a laptop in the car)PE etc',you'll get the extra power,+ it will be safe.Cost about £750 inc' vat.I know they will be able to remap the STi5 very soon.

Mark.

[This message has been edited by R19KET (edited 13-06-99).]

Jonathan

Are you being offered the kit from the blown up STI III ?.

Read some of the other threads and you'll see that the STI V is very sensitive to fuel.

The ECU used on the Phase II seems very marginal on tollerance. Now add all the kit and we might see an F1 style blow up on the track.

Jonathan

If youre going to do it. Use PE as they will remap it for the correct fuel.

DYNT

1500++pounds ..... I would see Mr. Fraser from MOTEC (EUROPE) base in UK... close to Banbury and have Motec M4-Pro or M48-Pro fitted to your car.

A bit more money but.... worthwhile. Is the best programmable ECU so far. You could even have Anti-Lag system to run with it.

In the near future ... you can even change the ECU from one car to another. This is investment.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Mark, et al,

points taken...

...however - I know, and will shortly be driving a car with all this kit on it.It hasn't blown up and is driven very hard. The same tuner has an STi V at a much higher state of tune built for the track, including 18in wheels and slicks! Again this hasn't blown up either.

Anyway, back to the point. The AFR is definately not the fuel cut defencer, it is a simple plug in to allow mixture richening across the rev range. This would be done in concert with a rolling road visit, and is primarily to prevent too lean a mixture with the increased gas flow.

I would have thought that the only contentious element is the EVC which increases boost pressure, everything else is a similar and common path to the Scoobysport/Ramair route that most cars seem to have fitted.

Any more comments welcome.

Cheers,

David

dmel

To R19KET:
If the current ECU can be easily remapped why would one choose to change ECU or even use the Superchips conversion which simply "fools" the ECU about boost pressure?
When you remap the ECU do you add all the right air/fuel ratios ans pre-ingintion information? Is the 1.2 bar safety cut-off pressure removable, or you simply tune the car to opearate at 1.1 bar say.
Thanks.

R19KET

David,Rob,

I'm certainly not knocking the HKS kit,it's quality, or reputation.
What I am knocking is the way it is used in this country.

Rob,we both know that your car,using the FCON 5,etc',is totally different to some cowboy sticking on an EVC4(etc)FCD and wacking up the boost.
Correct me if I'm wrong,but the Subaru ecu won't allow you to turn the boost up without the FCD.You then need the AFR to richen the mixture to compensate for the extra boost,and may need an ITC for the timing.

If you go the FCON 5 route(remappable add on ecu ?) it does all of these.

Going this route,is very versatile,and works
very well,but at a price.Circa £2k fitted.

Remapping your own ecu will give the same results(EVC4 features excluded)for £750,and you can always add an EVC later.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you go the HKS route, just make sure it's done right.Because the UK cowboys are blowing engines up,and don't forget the towbar,and trailor to carry all that kit !!!!

Mark.

RobAnderson

I use the HKS powerflow induction-kit,the sequential blow-off-valve, the EVC III, and the FCON V engine management system.(As you may have gathered I'm quite keen on HKS kit).

The common factors with all HKS stuff and the reason I went down that route is the quality, the versatility,flexibility and the user-friendliness of all the gear.

With reference to reliability concerns,it's worth noting that HKS do know a bit about Japanese cars. They aren't Japan's biggest tuning company for nothing and also successfully market their wares in a litigious place like the USA and tuning principles are tested where it matters,in a racing environment.

Rolling road figures will follow once various other bits and pieces have been attended to but I certainly haven't been disappointed so far with the results.

R19KET

Dmel,

That's the whole point of my post.PE,and others, can now remap the standard ecu.
They can remap the boost(through the rev range)to a safe increased level(circa 1.3 bar)and then adjust the ignition timing,and
fueling(max load,and cruise)to suit.

I'm mainly interested in torque,and having seen the results of PE's phase 1,torque comes in 'much' earlier,is far stonger through the mid' range,and holds 'much' longer.Bhp also seems to mirror the gains.

Because they can fully access the ecu,no safety features are lost,overboost etc',they are just moved to match the new map.

I'd recommend PE,because unlike some other companies,all of the mapping is done for YOUR car on the rolling road.

PE claim + 40ftlbs,and + 30 bhp.I think this maybe a little optomistic on my car,as this would give me 315ftlbs,and 335bhp.

I'm booked in next week,so we shall see,but if I'm within circa 5% of the quoted figures
I won't be TOO upset.

Mark.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Mark,

You use the phrase re-map, but it does involve soldering a 'daughter board' onto the current ECU. Call me paranoid, but I'm not really ready for this, as I have heard bad things about daughterboards and piggyback chips!

Maybe if there are some drivers with a more long term review of the product, I may be interested!

All comments welcome, as I would love to border the 300bhp mark with a UK car!

Regards
Andy

Bob Rawle

I have to jump in here and support Marks comments re mapping. PE really do know what they are doing with these cars and have even been to Japan to help the tuning boys over there get more torque as opposed to pure bhp. My Sti II 5 door is being upgraded and so far has lifted from 260 bhp and 229 ft lbs to 292 bhp and 260 ft lbs with out a sign of a quibble. Going back soon and maybe more to come. After the remap the car ran sweeter, was much smoother and very happy to rev and pull under any circumstances. I watched the process and the time and care taken was IMHO second to none. The fact that all the key parameters, boost, fuel and ignition timing are adjusted together to get the best, safest result for each car is a big plus.

Bob

dmel

If it does involve a daughter board then it is not actual remapping of the same chip!
Someone has to clarify if the Subaru ECU is actually a ROM or a EPROM (Erasable ROM). I think I will agree with Andy that I am not ready for this.

R19KET

Yes the PE phase 1 is an add on board.The Subaru chip can't be remapped.

It seems that if a product has HKS on it,we will allow someone to butcher/splice into our wiring loom,but worry about someone armed
with a soldering iron.

PE have taken a Japanese board,bought the software,and diagnostic equipment to map it for UK fuel spec' fuel,and the specific car.

I'd rather have one correctly installed/setup
board than 3 or 4 spliced in gadgets.

ANY of these products are only as good as the people installing/setting them up.

Mark.

Bob Rawle

As I understand it PE plug an eprom(S) into the external rom socket of the ecu. This is provided by Subaru for this very purpose. The ecu then uses the external eprom instead of its original chip. So its not a piggy back board like some other's but a true program remap. the original program is read, emulated, modified, tested, blown back into an eprom and fitted to the external socket ... ergo remap !!

Bob

dmel

So if I get it right, the original ECU remains where it is and it is simply overidden by the new EPROM chip? Does this mean that the original program stays with the original ECU, and that if you plug out the new ECU you continue to operate with the original ECU?

RobAnderson

Mark,
you're quite right to be sceptical about FCD's. I wouldn't trust one of these devices any more than a superchip, in that without fueling alterations, they are very borderline as regards engine safety and the cowboy method of fitting one and turning up the boost is certainly a recipe for disaster. The AFR's do at least permit a certain amount of fuel enrichment.

The FCON V is fairly expensive but not that expensive- it's just over £1K not £2k.
It comes with its own wiring loom and installation simply invoves plugging the new loom in between the old loom and the old ecu and then into the FCON. This takes approx. 10 mins(including gaining access to the ecu).
The principle is that the FCON intercepts all the signals to the ecu and overides them with new fuel and ignition settings according to any one of four individual pre-prorammed maps or custom-mapped rpm-load sites if desired or as necessary according to circumstances or state of tune.

I wouldn't try to argue that its better or worse than one of David's re-programmed ecu's-which I have no doubt are excellent and are initially matched to the individual car but, as I mentioned earlier, it does offer me extra flexibility when it comes to constantly upgrading the state of tune of my car which I invariably am and haven't got PE next door to me.

dmel

If as BPM says, the MY99 doesn't have any socket for external board how do you add it in Power Engineering? Is this the point where the soldering iron kicks in?

BPM

In regards to chip upgrade Subaru has stopped that altogether you will notice the MY99 has no socket available and the MY 2000 will utlise a closed loop system. It is time for the people to start utilising serious EFI systems that can alter air/fuel ratios correctly as the car is modified.

Greg Nikolettos
Boost Performance Motorsport
UK Marketing Manager

malique

Hence the re programming the ECU makes installing a boost controller etc. altogether redundant?

malique

Hence the re programming the ECU makes installing a boost controller etc. altogether redundant?

GavM

Also for David Power.

If I remap a UK Impreza Turbo can I still run on 95 RON or must it be 98 RON?

dmel

And a final one for DAVID POWER.
Should one wish to remove the new chip is at as easy as removing the board? (Since as you said the original settings are not altered)

BPM

"Hence the re programming the ECU makes installing a boost controller etc. altogether redundant?"

If you reprogram the ECU via a boost controller you are basically tampering with the air/fuel ratio. A Chip upgrade is basically a EFI system in chip form with it being locked in. ie no further adjustments can be made without messing timing ignition.
The LINK System allows contnual upfrade so you never risk running lean.
As to fuel I would recommend 100 RON to 104 RON when running Sti since they lean out at 7000-7900 reavs add to that the fact most people dial up the boost whammo MELTED psitons

BPM

If I remap a UK Impreza Turbo can I still run on 95 RON or must it be 98 RON?
You would be crazy to run on anything less than 98RON , Australia is having problems with Sti due to the fact Japan runs 100 RON fuel.
If you have time please read this article







PULP friction:
petrol stymies
Subaru WRX STi


Has your Subaru Sti supercar melted down?

After numerous engine problems - including four melt-downs - Subaru’s Impreza WRX STi seems more fragile than its rugged, rally-bred image suggests.
Acclaimed for its Porsche-like performance at a
fraction of the price, the car is sensitive to changes in the octane levels of premium unleaded petrol (PULP), Subaru Australia has admit-ted.Due to the Car being a grey market import in the UK, Subaru declined to offer a statement due to the fact it was not an officially imported vehicle.
The highly strung, high performance turbocharged engine can be stymied by a combination of low-grade fuel, hot weather and and high engine revs. It is believed the STi could now be paying the price for a techni-cal shortcut.
Subaru acknowledges the STi has not been modified to suit
Australian fuel which is exactly the same problems the UK market is suffering. In the Australian deal to import the limited edition involved certain concessions, including making few mechanical changes.
In Japan, the STi is designed to run on 100 RON (recommended
octane number) fuel but in Australia must settle for
premium unleaded which is rated between 95 and 96 RON. The UK Market has still experienced problems with 98 Ron fuel making owners question where the problem lies.
When tested in Asutralia, Subaru found, the STi adapted to
Australian fuel because the engine’s computer adjusts the
combustion timing according to fuel quality. But as STis have been distributed across the country, a small but significant number of the shipment of 399 has run into problems. (For a performance car this is unusual, because most manufacturers make allowances for Australia’s low grade fuel.)Some have developed engine "pinging", a symptom of the
engine not getting enough fuel or getting fuel with insufficient levels of octane. In extreme cases this can overheat the engine or melt a piston.Subaru Australia is sending a selection of fuel additives to Japan for testing and is also
considering "detuning" STi engine computers during routine
servicing.
Ironically, the latter would decrease the performance forwhich owners paid a premium .Drive has learned of about a dozen examples of fuel-related problems with the STi. The maker claims it has received calls from "less than 1 per cent" of owners.A straw poll of 22 STi owners in the Subaru WRX Club of NSW showed about half have experienced
problems. "We did an informal survey via e-mail and found it’s happening to some STis and not others," said club president Tony Stott. "There’s definitely something unusual happening ... more than it should given that these cars are supposed to be bulletproof."
Subaru Australia recommends that STi owners who plan to drive "enthusiastically" should add five litres of methyl benzene to each tank of fuel to improve the octane rating.
One owner, whose STi was repaired under warranty after "melting" a piston, said: "Subaru told me the car’s not supposed to be driven hard because our fuel is so iffy but the car can barely run on it" This is not the only solution, BPM recommends alternative methods of solving this problem such as an auxillary Fuel Controller with extra injector kit and recommended for all owners of Subarus who are running over 15psi boost. This is not only an Sti problem, most aftermarket solution tend to focus on increase of boost, with no regards to ingnition timing or air/fuel ratio, states Greg Nikolettos, Marketing spokesperson , of Boost Performance Motoring (BPM).


Some STis have melted a piston after being driven near the rev limit for sustained periods. One owner said: "I don’t think my problem was fuel-related. The computer starves the
engine of fuel between 7,500 and 7,900 rpm when it needs it most. I’m no engineer, but that seems absurd."Subaru Australia’s technical manager, Derek Ashby, said he believed driver abuse was to blame. "We’ve given most owners the benefit of the doubt," he said. "However, we will be looking very closely at future cases because driving on the rev-limiter is not how you drive a motor car. That’s not considered to be a fault with the vehicle."
Boost Performance Motoring (BPM) recommends the Links After Market computer fuel injection System as used by Subaru's Possum Bourne the '96, '97, and '98 Australian Rally Champion would be the solution allow-ing fully adjustable ignition timing and a variety of programs allowing a plug in solution , the air flow meter can also be eliminated to in-crease power.
Boost Performance Motoring (BPM) the marketing division of a collabora-tion of the leading Australian companies is committed to bring the market knowledge which has been developed over the many years to the UK.
They have landed.

GavM

To BPM

I do not have a STI supercar!!!
It is UK spec and not Japanese/Australian WRX, therefore all your waffle was of no interest. As I understand it, the car is set up to run on 95 RON.
Question was directed at PE for their ECU remap!!

mike_nunan

*** RELEASE RELEASE RELEASE ***

Outcry Rocks On-Line Subaru Community

Concern was growing this afternoon following a series of alleged "blatant" plugs posted to a popular bulletin board system. The SIDC system, a popular gathering place for Impreza-obsessed petrolheads, has a long history of support for suppliers of enthusiast-oriented aftermarket parts.

However, BMP ("Boomin' Max Power") UK Ltd, a newcomer to the system has caused a stir. "They mention one of their own products in every single post" said group member Mr C. Smoker, in a clandestine press conference earlier today. "There's nothing we can seem to do that will stop them". "I must go" he added "It's not safe for me to be seen speaking to you"

Another source, who prefers not to be named, said "The worst part is that most people are interested in new products, it's just they don't want them rammed down their deep throat..."

BMP were unavailable for comment, but an insider is alleged to have heard one manager wailing in the corridors... "If only I'd realised! Now all the SIDC people are sick of me, but if only I'd been a bit less full-on, we might be doing as well as ScoobySport or Power Engineering by now."

*** END END END ***

Ian Cook

Greg BPM, posting the same huge thing on 2 different topics will win you no support at all, you may find the posts causing a negative rather than positive response, as in the responses above, to you when you do start operating in August.

Factual responses that dont include phrases like, you need one of these and we can sell it to you, are a more positive way to go.

David from Power Engineering and Pete from Scoobysport, make very valuable contributions to the list, but dont find it necessary to plug their goods in every single sentence.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

To all who have contributed,

first of all I would like to thank you for giving me some excellent input and I still want to get more from my STi V, but will definately include PE in the loop.

It also goes to show that some people never listen. I specifically requested that BPM do not respond to this thread - BUT THERE WAS NO STOPPING YOU, WAS THERE!


David