davsl

I have been a total fool and commited the cardinal sin which is basically falling in love with a car and buying it after a test drive even knowing that it has a major fault (although the dealer made be believe it is nothing!). I have been looking at buying a faster car for a while and test drove loads of cars but always really wanted a Scooby. I went to my local dealer to see a car that I had seen advertised in the local press, an MY98 turbo. Anyway after starting it up I could tell it was making a strange knocking type noise which was very noticeable. I lifted the bonnet and revved the car from the throttle body and listened and it was definitely knocking. I left it ticking over for a while and checked out the rest of the car. I then went and asked the sales person about this noise. He came out started the car revved the engine and said there is nothing up with that mate! I then said I heard this year of car can suffer from piston slap, which he said theres nothing up with this car. I think by the time he came out to it, it had actually warmed up a bit as this makes a huge difference to pison slap as it will still do it unless it is totally up to operating temperature but it will sound significantly quieter.

Anyway I took the car for a test drive which was good as the saleman let me take it by myself which was good fun and I was impressed with. The car really went well which impressed me. So I asked what I would get for my part ex, which was £500 more than I had being offered elsewhere, although the car they were selling was £1200 above top book price for a dealer car according to Parkers (I know they are to cheap for a main dealer). So I was pleased with this also.

Anyway I went away and thought about it and did a little more research and figured out this car had piston slap (should of left it I know what a muppet!). So I phoned the dealer back and explained this to him, which he told me this is what they all do at this age with that engine in, whatever model of Subaru it is and as long as it goes away when warm what is the problem! I explained well if I want to sell the car privately it will be a great hinderance as the noise will put any potential buyers off straight away. He told me just to tell them to get in-touch with them and they would assure them that this is no potential problem. Like a complete mong I fell for this and gave a deposit of £500 for the car with my credit card.

I had to wait over a week to pick this car up and my mind was working overtime with this piston slap. I voiced my concerns again when I phoned up to ask when the car was ready, and again was just fobbed off with the same crap, but I was excited about the car so somehow I put it to the back of my mind.

Anyway I went and picked up the car a few days later. The guy whom I had originally dealt with was on holiday, and some younger salesman sorted me out. He led me to the car after I had paid for the thing and I started the car, I noticed the engine was fairly hot when I looked at the temp gauge yet the car was still knocking (they have to be totally up to temperature for the slap to stop), I said to the salesman this car is piston slapping even though it is warm (I didn't realise it was not totally up to operating temp) he replied that is not piston slap! Yeah right are these guys just told what to say. It was slapping its ******* head off! So I just took the thing. On later inspection I found the car needs 4 tyres within 1,000 miles (I know my stupid fault for not checking), it only has one transponder key (no doubt will cost a fortune form a Subaru dealer, will obviously not buy it from there!), and the exhaust back box is about shagged too with rust (again I never checked). Also the clutch has started to judder (common I know, but I am p*ssed off!).

So I know I have been a complete idiot, so please do not remind me of that as I do not need it. If you are buying a Scooby and something seems not quite right WALK AWAY, I wish I had. I have done a search on here and noticed that some people have had this fault fixed on the Subaru proven warranty. Were these new cars or second hand cars that developed it? I know if I try it on with the dealer I bought the car from I will get nowhere as I bought it knowing the fault, although I tried to say I was not happy with it! I guess after starting it every morning listening to it sounding like a diesel or a sh*tty old Cavalier with a knackered camshaft it has finally hit home what a plonker I have been. The car also slaps when warm although it is nowhere near as loud as when it cold and it does not always do it. I mean it is fairly warm at the moment weather wise god knows what it will sound like on a frosty winters morning!

I guess what I am worried about now is that yes the car might run forever like this, but if I come to sell it privatley nobody will buy it unless it is at a knockdown price as it sounds like sh*t when it is cold and if they have researched a website like this they definitely will not touch it. So I will have to get ripped off trading it in I guess.

This Subaru proven warranty apparantly can be used in any Subaru dealers? I am thinking of trying another Subaru dealer and saying that I did not realise it had this fault when I bought it and I am really concerned now, and see if they might fix it. As I say there seems to be loads of people had this sorted under warranty on this website, is this just a rubbish dealer? Or is the warranty not worth sh*t unless something major happens?

Anyway do any of you guys know of a decent dealer in the north of England or the south of Scotland that may be a bit more sympathetic with my problem? Or am I basically fcuked like I seem to feel like?

My car had done 66,000 but because of the age of it is due for its 82,500 service when it hits 69,000 miles and it's 90,000 mile service when it hits 76,500 which will cost a small fortune. But I can honestly say if I do not get this fault fixed there is no way on this earth am I paying Subaru's silly prices it will be going to a local mechanic who does a lot of work on these cars. As I will be trading it anyway and I am sure one service not carried out by Subaru will make a huge difference to the pittance I get offered for it anyway!

The car has also developed another strange noise, the boost controller that is positioned on the drivers suspension turret has started clicking really loudly. Never used to do it but is now, another headache.

So any advice then please guys, how do you get work done on warranty or do Subaru not bother now with piston slap? Who actually pays for the work to be done Subaru or the dealer? How in the hell did people get replacement short engines out of them? I know it is only a piston now, but I feel like it is like trying to get blood out of a stone! Any advice, who is a decent Scooby dealer way up north please?

I have a feeling I am shagged with this matter, so if you are researcjing this website on advise for purchasing your first scooby take notice I wish I had!

davsl

sorry posted this twice as it was not posting, something up with my ISP I think, or maybe this website

aroadwarrior

Some people may have no sympathy for you mate but personally I know what it feels like to get carried away when first investing in a "dream" car. Can't say it ever happened to me quite as badly though.
Sorry to hear you have so much trouble though. I to thought I had a "slapper" but did dome research to find it had had a new engine, on further inspection it was just the cambelt tensioner, replaced and all was well. Might be worth checking it........
As for the boost solenoid, they can get noisy on this MY, ask the guys on here with some real know how but I think changing the rubber bushes and/or a clean out could help. If it ticks on idle then it is probably a faulty throttle postion switch though.
Anyway, soz about your problems but a free btt for the effort you put into your post!!

davsl

No mine is a slapper definitely, and I am not really bothered about the wear and tear items that are on there way out as that is to be expected. Just the dealer I bought the car off is very highly respected on here and I know people that have cars from there that are very pleased with them. Unfortunately I do not rate them that highly, and the other faults I have found on the car have made me a bit more bitter. Just an expensive lesson that will never ever happen again. I think I should just forget about the slap and enjoy the car basically. Just wish I bought it private for the £7500 it was worth instead of £9000.

Marx Mcrae

iTrader: (4)

I got a quote off a main scooby dearler in Sheffield for £700 to fix the slapping on mine (MY98)

greasemonkey

Wwhat do you want us to say? You've answered your own question really. You bought the car knowing this was an issue, so the dealer you bought it from are unlikely to help.

Subaru won't want to know as the car is out of warranty, so about the best thing you can do is shop around the specialists to firstly whether it is piston slap, and secondly how much they'll charge to fix it.

NACRO

Name the dealer.

davsl

Thanks for the advice greasemonkey, I know I have been stupid and I agree with exactly what you are saying. However the car has about 10 months Subaru proven warranty left on it. I am just wanting to find out if any other dealer may be a bit more sympathetic to my case. I know it is my problem for buying the thing like this, but we all make mistakes. Just read a lot of posts about this problem being sorted under warranty. All my dealer is saying is that it is not a problem and will not harm the car whatsoever or get any worse. If that is the case fine, but I guess I am more bothered about the resale value of the car being hit really badly, unless I fix it myself, or trade it in. I guess it is the other faults on the car that have made me a bit angry about this as I haven't had the car long. Just the car seems like something somebody has trading it in as they new its wear and tear parts were needing replaced soon (which is what most people do) and like a fool I was impressed with the cars ability and all common sense went out of the window. I understand wear and tear things are not covered on the warranty, and that is fair enough. Just want to get the slap sorted if possible. I know I should of walked away from the car, but I did make it clear to the dealer that I was not suited about this fault on the car. I asked if they had ever fixed this type of thing under warranty before and he said they have, but only on cars under 3 years old. So I guess he is saying my car is 5 years old so it should be excepted to behave like this. As I said I just wanted some advice really, wanted to know if anybody has had this type of thing fixed elsewhere under warranty recently, or is my dealer correct in saying that it would only get done a car within the first 3 years?

I bought the car from this dealer because I know a couple of people who have cars from there and are very happy (newer cars than mine) and they also have a good reputation on this forum. And I guess I sort of believed what the saleman was saying because of this although I wasn't totally happy, so I bought the car. Now after reading more on here and another forum, and the awfull racket this car makes when it is cold, or even if it is left for an hour or so I am not happy. I do not need to be told I have been really stupid as I know it! Just wanted opinions from other people who have had the same problem, as when I have searched the archives of this forum they seem to be loads of them.

I am more or less confident in the fact that the dealer I bought the car off just do not want to fix it, if this is the case it must be them that pay for the repair not Subaru UK? The other thing I am not happy about is that the car still does slap on occasion when warm, but nowhere near to the extent as it does when it is cold but still it is audible. I need to take it somewhere different to get an opinion really then maybe go back to the dealer. Just thought this dealer may have been a bit more bothered about customer satisfaction, but seems like most things these days everybody wants your money, but the after sales service is usually awfull. So does anyone know of a decent Subaru dealer in the north of england that may be a bit more realistic/sypathetic, or even further away as I am willing to travel to get this sorted. Please help!

davsl

Sorry Nacro I am not gonna name the dealer as it is still early days yet, and obvioulsy there is loads of Impreza drivers reading this and loads of them will be happy with this place, as I know they are. If I get no joy elsewhere I will name them as I couldn't really care less. Just think I am nearly as much to blame for being so stupid as to buy the bloody thing. The previous owner has had the car for about three years and serviced it at the same dealer. Whether he was aware of this and got fobbed off too, I do not know. He is local and I have his phone number so I might ring him up and ask. Going away for a few days now for a break so I will forget about all this hassle. Looking forward to seeing your replies. Thanks again for any advice guys

davsl

Marx Mcrae £700 sounds good for this from a dealer. As my dealer said this would cost about £850 for labour only! Then obviously there is bound to be a bit for parts. Thought it would end up at over a grand all-in anyway.

DJ140

If the car has 10 months Subaru warranty on it, go to another dealer and ask them to fix it. You could also ring IM and ask them if piston slap is covered under their warranty, which it should be as it is a fault with the engine.

Good luck.

Dan

Bottomfeeder

If I have read all this correctly, you are covered for the next 3 months under Subaru Warranty ........ in which case my advice is this....... Get it to another dealer......ASAP

greasemonkey

Yes, if you have Subaru Proven warranty left, getting it to another dealer ASAP is best move.

StickyMicky

it might not even be slap
from what i can work out, scooby engines are noisey when cold regardless

ive been told it many times, by lots of diffrent people, i was worried about the noise on mine when it was cold and when i had it in for its 1st service i asked the mech to check the noise and he seamed to think it was the lash adjusters.
i have no idea what these are lol, but im told the engine has to come apart to sort them (maybe removing the heads?)

the noise still bugs me a bit but as he didnt seam to think it was piston slap, im a lot happier then i was, as mentioned above, the cam belt tensioners also seam to make sum slapping kind of noises, it might not be slap, best to get a proper scooby mech to look at it

wrxmark

This piston slap issue worried me until you put some perspective on it. Make sure it is piston slap first. I was sure mine had it and was worried sick. If you have a look at the various threads when searching you will find allsorts of advice there is even a sound file on one of them. Judging by posts most are noisy when cold and sound like so called "slappers" when a few miles have been put on them.
If mine has it the garage that recently did some work did not advise me of it. The thing won’t break unless you help it along through lack of respect anyway. Japanese motors are on the whole built to superb standards and are a lot tougher than you might think or can be painted here sometimes.
I noticed on one of thread a train of thought which helped me out.
A post claimed that the pistons were slightly undersized so expansion can take place when on boost. Seemed a perfectly arguable explanation.
This "slapper" problem is meant to effect MY98 models due to a change in the piston length. They are shorter so therefore knock, apparently. Just how many were built and how many suffer this problem no one knows. Some people have had them repaired only to start knocking again. So is there really a problem in the first place or have Subaru fixing some on warranty put a greater spin on it all. You judge.
I personally think we can take it all to far and should just enjoy driving them and looking after them with common sense.
You can make yourself sick with worry by reading some of the threads here. There are a lot of people with the same so-called fault.
Don’t worry dude get the car checked out by a proper trusted garage. You may have to spend a few quid for sensors or bits. I can assure you she will come back a much better beastie. Just enjoy it.

Attu

Id take it to another Subaru dealer and ask them if they think its Slap, also try phoning IM to see if they can help you out if it is piston slap.
Ive also got a uk my98 but ive not got piston slap but mine has only done 48k but ive heard of card having slap with fewer miles than mine.

Andy

DreXeL

I have an MY97 with 98k on the clock, and it has some piston slap. It completely dissapears after only a few minutes though, it doesn't need to get to full operating temp for it to quieten down. You can't here it at tickover either, only when revving it or actually going along. Going by the sound my own car makes when cold, and the way you have described yours, it sounds to me like yours could have something more serious than slap, maybe a knocking big end. You probably don't want to hear that, and I don't mean to alarm you, it's just my opinion based on what you have described. I hope it works out for you mate



[Edited by DreXeL - 9/6/2003 8:05:33 PM]

davsl

Thanks for your replies guys I really appreciate it. Sorry it took me a while to reply as I have been abroad for a week. At the time of posting I had actually only had this car for 2 days. Just the noise seemed a lot worse than when I picked it up. I actually think this salesman warmed this car up before I went for my first test drive (as I phoned up prior to going and see the car to ask if it was still there, as I live 30 miles away), as it sounded nowhere near as bad as it does now from cold. As I previously mentioned the car was also warmed up when I went to pick it up, although not enough to stop the slap. To add insult to injury on the way to the airport on the M6 the heavens opened up, totally crapping myself with the barely legal tyres I tried the rear wiper which just doesn't work, surprise, surprise!

wrxmark

Rear wiper! You got a wagon then? If not,unless I`m mistaken rear wipers were fitted to Japs only. Oh course I could be wrong.

davsl

Yeah its a UK Wagon, needent be there for the good it does at the moment!

wrxmark

davsl YHM that might help out

[Edited by wrxmark - 9/14/2003 1:11:02 PM]

davsl

Could any of you guys please help me with some questions about MY98 cars please?

The thing is I think I have been totally filled full of crap by this patronising salesman that sold me the car, stupidly I believed work colleagues and read good things on here and SIDC about what a great dealer the dealer in question is. And being a little bothered about the complexity of these cars decided a trusted main dealer would be a good place to buy a car even though it was at a much bigger cost (about £1200 more than an independant dealer) as surely the car would be of a better quality and they should help more with problems. The other faults have really annoyed me and I think it is really bad that such a respected dealer can take a car in that was obviously traded in as lots of parts were starting to wear out then just off-load to me at such a high price! So as I said I am really upset at the moment as this was a very expensive car to me and I am not happy so I really want my money back as I feel I have been told a load of wrong information and deceived by the salesman in question. As I personally at the time did not know much about these cars (hence going to such a supposedly respected dealer). I had read in a used car guide that some can suffer from piston slap but did not really know it was a defect that should not be there! So I intend to get my money back under the rejection of faulty goods act, as it is not just the slap, it is many other things, but the slap is the main problem and this individual has lied to me about. However I understand that he is a saleman and will lie again so I am preparing myself here as a start. What annoys me more is that at first this salesman tried to deny that the car had any noise when he first came out and revved the car, then when I later phoned him up saying I thought it had slap he proceeded with his pack of lies, and I fell for it as I did not know otherwise. Obviously if I get nowhere this garage will be named on every forum and anything else I can think of! However this is early days and if I get some joy and this is sorted out ammicably I see no reason to do this, as this just may of been a bad car that has slipped through we shall see. Anyway my questions.

1) The saleman told me that whatever Subaru (Impreza, Legacy, Forrester etc.) of around this age with this particular engine in will suffer piston slap. He also said that it will of done it from day one when the car was brand new?

2) He also says that he has had information from Subaru technical (whatever that is) that this continual slapping will not wear either the piston or the bore over time?

3) He also reckons that this defect will not de-value this car in anyway if I come to sell it privately? I mean it only sounds like a Diesel or a Cavalier with knackered cam when cold! But he reckons just tell them to give his dealers a ring and he will give them the same drivel that I got to put there mind at rest and they will hand over there hard earned cash. Just hope they do not do a search on here as people seem to pay the best part of a grand to fix this fault out of there own pocket!

4) He also says that a lot of these cars have been fixed under warranty with the offending piston replaced, but there is no point in doing it as the piston slap does not cause any problems, and it would cost £800 pounds in labour alone to fix!

I am determined to get my way on this one as this was a huge outlay to me and I have just feel deceived over the whole thing, I will let you guys know if I have any luck.

List of faults on car:

Piston Slap

4 barely legal tyres

Rotten back-box (that was highlighted on one of the service recipts a year ago and 6,000 miles ago, obviously waiting for the next mug to fix it, me!)

Only one transponder key for the Subaru Immobilser.

Boost Controller making a really loud ticking noise, sounds like a gearbox bearing, started the day after I got the car.

Clutch Judder, worse in reverse. Clutch only bites right at the top of the pedal travel. I believe you cannot adjust these as they are hydraulic, this indicates the clutch is on its last legs I think!

One of the rear brakes often binds, making a squealing noise.

Very nearly a crunch changing from 2nd to 3rd gear.

Rear windscreen wiper does not work.

Car was advertised on AUtotrader as having a Thatcham Category 1 alarm, it didn't have one so I had to pay for it fitted at a cost of £200. Car was advertised as only covering 61,000 miles, had actually covered 65,500.

Please do not tell me how stupid I have being trusting a car salesman as it will never ever happen again, and I for one will take it with a pinch of salt if I read things about dealers being good on these type of forums. Hopefully this will not turn out to be a personally expensive lesson through no fault of my own!

Thanks!

greasemonkey

Enough already. Continually moaning about this only wastes time. Learn from it, try and rescue what you can from the situation and move on.

Incorrect, in both respects. Not all EJ20s of that vintage suffer this problem, and in very few cases would it have been evident from new.

Suggest you ask him for a copy of this technical bulletin, if it exists (which I think you'll find it doesn't).

Depends whether or not the person you sell it to is clueless. If you can find someone who makes a less than level-headed decision, as you initially did, you may have no trouble offloading it!

You can't rely on that though, can you?

Not much to be said about that. Did you check the condition of the tyres before you bought the car? If the salesman agreed to have them replaced you have reason to complain. If not, you got what you paid for.

Again, little to say about this unless the salesman agreed to have it replaced prior to sale. It's a five year old used car - it goes without saying that bits of it will be worn.

You should have checked items like this when you inspected the car prior to purchase, and if it was knackered, attempt to either get the dealer to replace it or negotiate a reduction in the price.

This is nothing to lose sleep about. You can pick up secondhand OE exhausts at favourable prices here, thanks to people changing to one of the huge selection of aftermarket exhausts that are available for these cars.

Again, little to be said, and to be honest, something that someone clued up on Subarus would ask up front, given the cost of new keys.

What sort of warranty was the car sold under? This sort of thing you should be insisting they sort.

Correct. Again though, it's a used car and you can only expect things like this to be worn. If it was still under manufacturer warranty you could insist on a replacement on account of the judder, but as a used sale, it was no doubt juddering/high when you test drove it, so chalk this one down to experience.

You should insist this is sorted; it's easy enough to fix.

"Very nearly a crunch"?

Again, insist this is fixed as part of the warranty you presumably got. Could be as simple as a blown fuse. Either way, if fitted, accessories like this should be expected to function unless the salesman specifically stated otherwise.

Did you find out prior to purchase that this was incorrect? If not, you have grounds to expect it to be fitted without cost to you. If the salesman did tell you the advert was wrong, your case is weakened somewhat, but if nothing else you can threaten the dealer with claims of false advertising.

Again a nebulous point. Presumably the odometer was visible when you test-drove the car, so you would have known about this prior to handing over the cash, but it is something you could use to strengthen your negotiating position.

Jeez, what do you want us to do, get the violin out and play you a lament? Get over it!

davsl

Ok thanks for your help, will not mention it anymore.

davsl

I guess you are right greasemonkey the wear and tear items are my own fault as you should never trust a dealer even if lots of people on here think they are superb. But maybe such a highly respected dealer should look at things in a little more detail. Just trying to add it to my case really as I feel I have being lied to regarding the piston slap. But you are right the rest is maybe incidental. But regarding the slap the replies you gave to my questions more or less say he was filling me full of it. Yet he will not admit to that will he?