Apex or Superchip
11 November 2002, 05:31 PM
#2
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All depends on what you are after matey, a "superchip" or "chipped"
engine will give you great power gains, but i don't know at what cost....to the engine that is, also these run as a "piggyback" to the normal ecu, however th Apexi Kit is a whole different ball game, this is a direct "plug and play" replacment ecu for your scooby, it takes about 30 seconds to fit and comes pre programmed with a base map for the subaru, not a particulary great one but its better than standard, here comes the good bit.....the Apexi unit will let you control via a GUI hand controler every aspect of you cars digital jigery pokery, fuling, air flow, boost ( you need either the Apexi boost soilnoide kit £250, or you can get the trick AVC-R boost controler,......very " impress your mates" gizmo...£450 ) and the good thing is it grows with your mods, a re-map later and your off.......the average Apexi takes around 2 hours to map and really needs to be done my somebody in the know to get the best out of it.....hope it helps
personaly im going for the AVC-R and the Power FC......HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ME!!!!!!!!
#COSTLY THOUGH~
engine will give you great power gains, but i don't know at what cost....to the engine that is, also these run as a "piggyback" to the normal ecu, however th Apexi Kit is a whole different ball game, this is a direct "plug and play" replacment ecu for your scooby, it takes about 30 seconds to fit and comes pre programmed with a base map for the subaru, not a particulary great one but its better than standard, here comes the good bit.....the Apexi unit will let you control via a GUI hand controler every aspect of you cars digital jigery pokery, fuling, air flow, boost ( you need either the Apexi boost soilnoide kit £250, or you can get the trick AVC-R boost controler,......very " impress your mates" gizmo...£450 ) and the good thing is it grows with your mods, a re-map later and your off.......the average Apexi takes around 2 hours to map and really needs to be done my somebody in the know to get the best out of it.....hope it helps
personaly im going for the AVC-R and the Power FC......HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ME!!!!!!!!
#COSTLY THOUGH~
11 November 2002, 06:50 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
As e-volve says --
With the Apexi gear, you've got two ways of doing it.
1. Apexi AVC-R and S-AFC : The AVC-R is the boost controller, and the S-AFC is the fuel computer. Both have EL displays, and allow mapping of boost/fuel to specific points in RPM. Both require professional mapping, usually takes about 2-4 hours depending. With these fitted, you can increase you fuel and boost as far as the engine will take it !
Costs, AVC-R = £400, S-AFC = £270.
2. Apexi Power FC : Basically, does all of the above, but is a replacement ECU, as apposed to a "piggyback" unit like the AVC-R/S-AFC. Simply replaces the car's standard ECU, you can then use a Hand Controller, a hand held device to map in even more detail than above. Costs, ECU = Approx £650, Hand Controller = £260.
Prices include VAT, btw. I'm going to give the Power FC option a try out shortly, on my STI 1 Wagon. Currently managing 280bhp, should easily take me beyond 300bhp !
Paul Houbart
Gecko Motorsport
Edited to mention, very few Scooby owners would consider the Superchip option : it's expensive, crude and potentially fatal to the engine.
[Edited by BoxerFlat4 - 11/11/2002 7:03:37 PM]
With the Apexi gear, you've got two ways of doing it.
1. Apexi AVC-R and S-AFC : The AVC-R is the boost controller, and the S-AFC is the fuel computer. Both have EL displays, and allow mapping of boost/fuel to specific points in RPM. Both require professional mapping, usually takes about 2-4 hours depending. With these fitted, you can increase you fuel and boost as far as the engine will take it !
Costs, AVC-R = £400, S-AFC = £270.2. Apexi Power FC : Basically, does all of the above, but is a replacement ECU, as apposed to a "piggyback" unit like the AVC-R/S-AFC. Simply replaces the car's standard ECU, you can then use a Hand Controller, a hand held device to map in even more detail than above. Costs, ECU = Approx £650, Hand Controller = £260.
Prices include VAT, btw. I'm going to give the Power FC option a try out shortly, on my STI 1 Wagon. Currently managing 280bhp, should easily take me beyond 300bhp !
Paul Houbart
Gecko Motorsport
Edited to mention, very few Scooby owners would consider the Superchip option : it's expensive, crude and potentially fatal to the engine.
[Edited by BoxerFlat4 - 11/11/2002 7:03:37 PM]
11 November 2002, 07:16 PM
#4
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With the Apexi do i have to go to a professional every time i upgrade the engine or can i change the setting myself without the car ending up in a ball of flames?
s1mon
s1mon
11 November 2002, 08:02 PM
#5
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Depends on how technically "savvy" you are : you are able to adjust the mapping with the unit itself, so if you sat down with the original tuner, and he ran through exactly how it worked, you could tweak the map here and there if you felt confidant enough to do that.
Anything beyond minor tweaks though, and I would recomend having it re-mapped : a garage will have all the diagnostic tools on hand to tell exactly what's happening inside your engine, which is what you need when mapping an engine.
Paul Houbart
Gecko Motorsport
Anything beyond minor tweaks though, and I would recomend having it re-mapped : a garage will have all the diagnostic tools on hand to tell exactly what's happening inside your engine, which is what you need when mapping an engine.
Paul Houbart
Gecko Motorsport
12 November 2002, 12:22 AM
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Try this
In the morning over breakfast break the news that there is a rare virus doing the rounds that can olny be cured by the sound of a 300+BHP Flat Four screaming its nuts off, but as you have just booked a Caribian Cruise for a suprise Christmas preasent for her-indoors, your a bit shot on cash ( convay urgencey with a few deep coughs....flem if poss......try a mix of Milk and Tango)
Pray to the gods that she bites and then slip her the Apexi catolog highliting the Power-Fc ( orange works best ).
then when its all paid for knock up a few fake e-mails to the tune of " Sorry sir but your holliday has been canceled due to Typhoons or some crap like that..........and hay-presto...one totaly free "Meat packing Apexi powered flat four"
or just ask and hope!!!!!....lol
happy christmas....you hope
In the morning over breakfast break the news that there is a rare virus doing the rounds that can olny be cured by the sound of a 300+BHP Flat Four screaming its nuts off, but as you have just booked a Caribian Cruise for a suprise Christmas preasent for her-indoors, your a bit shot on cash ( convay urgencey with a few deep coughs....flem if poss......try a mix of Milk and Tango)
Pray to the gods that she bites and then slip her the Apexi catolog highliting the Power-Fc ( orange works best ).
then when its all paid for knock up a few fake e-mails to the tune of " Sorry sir but your holliday has been canceled due to Typhoons or some crap like that..........and hay-presto...one totaly free "Meat packing Apexi powered flat four"
or just ask and hope!!!!!....lol
happy christmas....you hope
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12 November 2002, 01:21 AM
#8
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If you want to "TUNE" your car to any degree, and stay safe, I'd discount the Superchip. It purely allows you to raise boost, and doesn't address fuel, or ignition.
Which moves us on to the "seperate Apexi" parts.
Again, if you want to TUNE you engne correctly, not only will you need the boost, and fuel controllers, you'll also need an IGNITION controller too !!!!! Add it all up, and it will cost more than a full replacement ECU.
Then you need to fine some one who can get all 3 different controllers to work correctly together.
The Power FC would be a better option, but for the cost, and fining someone who's got a lot of experience of mapping them (there are one or two people out there, but not so much on Subaru's).
Personally, for the cost of the Power FC, hand controller, and mapping £650 + £260 + Mapping ??? I'd go for a Link ECU.
Depending on what MY you have, the Link ECU is about £700, a tuning module £140, also + the mapping.
It's tried, and tested, reliable, and gets great results. Just look at what any of the top cars run.
The Apexi kit may be great, but I've yet to see any results on a Scoob.
Mark.
Which moves us on to the "seperate Apexi" parts.
Again, if you want to TUNE you engne correctly, not only will you need the boost, and fuel controllers, you'll also need an IGNITION controller too !!!!! Add it all up, and it will cost more than a full replacement ECU.
Then you need to fine some one who can get all 3 different controllers to work correctly together.
The Power FC would be a better option, but for the cost, and fining someone who's got a lot of experience of mapping them (there are one or two people out there, but not so much on Subaru's).
Personally, for the cost of the Power FC, hand controller, and mapping £650 + £260 + Mapping ??? I'd go for a Link ECU.
Depending on what MY you have, the Link ECU is about £700, a tuning module £140, also + the mapping.
It's tried, and tested, reliable, and gets great results. Just look at what any of the top cars run.
The Apexi kit may be great, but I've yet to see any results on a Scoob.
Mark.
12 November 2002, 07:32 AM
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Do you mean i should lie to my girlfriend to make my car go faster. Let me think ..........................Okay! sounds good to me. I mean it is for the greater good.
R19KET, do you know of any good web sites for a Link ECU?
R19KET, do you know of any good web sites for a Link ECU?
12 November 2002, 08:32 AM
#10
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From Well Lane 3 -
17.C Alan Smith MY98 Terzo (HKS FMIC with custom pipework, Apexi power FC, uprated fuel pump, HKS iridium plugs, HKS SPF induction, HKS fuel pressure reg, HKS decat with Hiper Muffler) 289bhp @ 6480, 286lbsft @ 4675, 19psi
17.C Alan Smith MY98 Terzo (HKS FMIC with custom pipework, Apexi power FC, uprated fuel pump, HKS iridium plugs, HKS SPF induction, HKS fuel pressure reg, HKS decat with Hiper Muffler) 289bhp @ 6480, 286lbsft @ 4675, 19psi
12 November 2002, 10:06 AM
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Superchip? hmmm, nope. I don't know much, but, from what I have heard and what Mark just posted, they just raise boost without adjusting fueling, not a good thing.
If you have an early car 92 - 96 then you could have a look at:
http://www.scoobyecu.co.uk/
I'm going to be going that route to cure my overboost/fuelcut problem. And as it's not just raising boost, but a whole map, it's not, in my eyes, as unsosphisticated as a superchip.
I do agree with Mark though, if you are going to tune the car, then a programmable ECU (Links, Motec, Pectel, GEMS) would prabably be best. There are some very very knowledgeable people out there who know exactly what they are doing with these ECU's and Subarus.
just my 2p's worth
If you have an early car 92 - 96 then you could have a look at:
http://www.scoobyecu.co.uk/
I'm going to be going that route to cure my overboost/fuelcut problem. And as it's not just raising boost, but a whole map, it's not, in my eyes, as unsosphisticated as a superchip.
I do agree with Mark though, if you are going to tune the car, then a programmable ECU (Links, Motec, Pectel, GEMS) would prabably be best. There are some very very knowledgeable people out there who know exactly what they are doing with these ECU's and Subarus.
just my 2p's worth
12 November 2002, 11:38 AM
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Simon,
Check out www.brdevelopments.com
Bob Rawle has probably mapped in excess of 100 Subaru's.
Paul,
Yes, I know the Power FC is fully re-mappable, which is why I suggested it over the components.
Alans car got reasonable figures, and I'm not saying the PFC isn't any good, I'm just saying the number of mapped cars, is limited, so therefore, so is the experience.
I think the Linked cars did pretty well at WL3 too !!!!
Mark.
Check out www.brdevelopments.com
Bob Rawle has probably mapped in excess of 100 Subaru's.
Paul,
Yes, I know the Power FC is fully re-mappable, which is why I suggested it over the components.
Alans car got reasonable figures, and I'm not saying the PFC isn't any good, I'm just saying the number of mapped cars, is limited, so therefore, so is the experience.
I think the Linked cars did pretty well at WL3 too !!!!
Mark.
12 November 2002, 11:41 AM
#14
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Mark - I know, just making a point. So many people forget about the Apexi option, just wanted to remind people it is an option.
Hopefully, my own car will help contribute to the "knowledge".
I know, just making a point. So many people forget about the Apexi option, just wanted to remind people it is an option.Hopefully, my own car will help contribute to the "knowledge".
12 November 2002, 12:05 PM
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11 December 2002, 11:59 AM
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Just a little info that might help out:
The Power FC is one of the most technologically advanced fuel management systems for today's race car. It allows access to every parameter of tuning within the ECU. Installation of the unit is the easiest on the market. Simply switching out the factory ECU and plugging in the Power FC transforms the factory ECU into a fine tuning instrument capable of growing with the tuning menu.
Tuning parameters include: ignition timing map, air flow meter signal adjustment, injector pulse timing adjustment, boost control, acceleration enrichment compensation, fuel/ignition test, ignition cranking fuel adjustment, water temperature correction, and rev-limiter control. All parameters of the vehicle including water temp, oil temp, and oil pressure can be monitored from the display.
================================================== ================
The Apexi S-AFC is a highly versatile fuel computer which allows remapping of the fuel using the airflow /air pressure sensor fitted to most vehicles
Monitor Mode: Allows monitoring of up to 4 channels at one time. Also allows tracing of AVC-R monitor function.
Setting Mode: Allows user to adjust air/fuel ratio through Hi and Lo Throttle maps. Other features like throttle percentage settings, rpm point settings, and deceleration air flow correction are adjustable through the setting menu.
Etc. Mode: The etcetera menu is for adjusting the variables that are required for the S-AFC to properly adjust fuel(i.e. # of cylinders, throttle position sensor type, sensor type, etc.)
Up to four data channels can be selected for monitoring:
Intake Manifold Vacuum/Boost Pressure
Air Flow
Intake Manifold Pressure
Karmann Frequency
Engine RPM
Throttle Position
Air Flow Correction %
Up to four of these parameters can be monitored in three different ways
================================================== =================
The Apexi AVC-R is a highly versatile turbo boost controller which allows remapping of the boost curve for Rpm in different gears.
Monitor Mode: Allows monitoring of up to 4 channels at one time. Also allows tracing of AVC-R monitor functions.
Setting Mode: There are three setting modes: A, B, or OFF. A total of two boost settings are available with the AVC-R. Selecting OFF will turn off all boost control
Etc. Mode: The etc menu is used for configuring the variables that allow the AVC-R to properly control boost. (I.e. # of cylinders, speed sensor type, throttle sensor type, gear judge, etc.)
Monitor Mode: 1,2,3,4 Channel
Up to four data channels can be selected for monitoring:
Up to four data channels can be selected for monitoring:
Intake Manifold Vacuum/Boost Pressure
Engine RPM
Vehicle Speed
Throttle Position
AVC-R Solenoid Valve Duty Cycle
Injector Duty Cycle (if connected)
Up to four of these parameters can be monitored in three different ways:
Its just copied and pasted blurb, but i hope its useful
www.rcdevelopments.co.uk they can do the whole package for you , hardware, software, mapping, and fitment...
getting mine done after christmas.......yay
jay
[edited to add correct pic.....doh!]
[Edited by e-volve - 11/12/2002 12:02:59 PM]
The Power FC is one of the most technologically advanced fuel management systems for today's race car. It allows access to every parameter of tuning within the ECU. Installation of the unit is the easiest on the market. Simply switching out the factory ECU and plugging in the Power FC transforms the factory ECU into a fine tuning instrument capable of growing with the tuning menu.
Tuning parameters include: ignition timing map, air flow meter signal adjustment, injector pulse timing adjustment, boost control, acceleration enrichment compensation, fuel/ignition test, ignition cranking fuel adjustment, water temperature correction, and rev-limiter control. All parameters of the vehicle including water temp, oil temp, and oil pressure can be monitored from the display.
================================================== ================
The Apexi S-AFC is a highly versatile fuel computer which allows remapping of the fuel using the airflow /air pressure sensor fitted to most vehicles
Monitor Mode: Allows monitoring of up to 4 channels at one time. Also allows tracing of AVC-R monitor function.
Setting Mode: Allows user to adjust air/fuel ratio through Hi and Lo Throttle maps. Other features like throttle percentage settings, rpm point settings, and deceleration air flow correction are adjustable through the setting menu.
Etc. Mode: The etcetera menu is for adjusting the variables that are required for the S-AFC to properly adjust fuel(i.e. # of cylinders, throttle position sensor type, sensor type, etc.)
Up to four data channels can be selected for monitoring:
Intake Manifold Vacuum/Boost Pressure
Air Flow
Intake Manifold Pressure
Karmann Frequency
Engine RPM
Throttle Position
Air Flow Correction %
Up to four of these parameters can be monitored in three different ways
================================================== =================
The Apexi AVC-R is a highly versatile turbo boost controller which allows remapping of the boost curve for Rpm in different gears.
Monitor Mode: Allows monitoring of up to 4 channels at one time. Also allows tracing of AVC-R monitor functions.
Setting Mode: There are three setting modes: A, B, or OFF. A total of two boost settings are available with the AVC-R. Selecting OFF will turn off all boost control
Etc. Mode: The etc menu is used for configuring the variables that allow the AVC-R to properly control boost. (I.e. # of cylinders, speed sensor type, throttle sensor type, gear judge, etc.)
Monitor Mode: 1,2,3,4 Channel
Up to four data channels can be selected for monitoring:
Up to four data channels can be selected for monitoring:
Intake Manifold Vacuum/Boost Pressure
Engine RPM
Vehicle Speed
Throttle Position
AVC-R Solenoid Valve Duty Cycle
Injector Duty Cycle (if connected)
Up to four of these parameters can be monitored in three different ways:
Its just copied and pasted blurb, but i hope its useful
www.rcdevelopments.co.uk they can do the whole package for you , hardware, software, mapping, and fitment...
getting mine done after christmas.......yay
jay
[edited to add correct pic.....doh!]
[Edited by e-volve - 11/12/2002 12:02:59 PM]
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