P1
07 May 2002, 09:29 PM
#1
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So Chris you were running +4 to 5 PSI at peak power like I was suggesting?
This forged piston business is very odd indeed. According to these links they do: (including the P1).
http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/m...y/history.html
http://www.iwoc.co.uk/impspec2.html
Clearly we need to know with out ripping the engine to bits
I knew that most of them did not have closed deck blocks but no forged pistons is a new one on me. I have started a new thread in drivetrain to save contaminating this one too much. Would be nice to get to the bottom of it.
[Edited by john banks - 7/5/2002 9:46:23 PM]
This forged piston business is very odd indeed. According to these links they do: (including the P1).
http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/m...y/history.html
http://www.iwoc.co.uk/impspec2.html
Clearly we need to know with out ripping the engine to bits
I knew that most of them did not have closed deck blocks but no forged pistons is a new one on me. I have started a new thread in drivetrain to save contaminating this one too much. Would be nice to get to the bottom of it.[Edited by john banks - 7/5/2002 9:46:23 PM]
03 July 2002, 07:59 PM
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Hi,
Pretty much the same as you, I've got a P1 with a decat exhaust but no air filter yet, which filter are you running? I'm after one that's not going to blow the MAF
As for ECU's I've been told the Tek3 from Ecutek is the one to go for, for P1's
www.ecutek.com
Pretty much the same as you, I've got a P1 with a decat exhaust but no air filter yet, which filter are you running? I'm after one that's not going to blow the MAF
As for ECU's I've been told the Tek3 from Ecutek is the one to go for, for P1's
www.ecutek.com
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04 July 2002, 07:17 PM
#8
Pramrace, Did you notice any performance difference with the K&N ? Can't say I noticed any difference when fitting to my last car(my97). When the std filter is due to be changed on the P1 i'll replace it then.
Just fitted a SS downpipe and am very pleased with the extra mid range.
Steve.
Just fitted a SS downpipe and am very pleased with the extra mid range.
Steve.
04 July 2002, 07:48 PM
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You may find that the tek3 wont be available for the P1 due to the simple fact that the ecu used is somewhat different to that of the UK turbo cars.
What i would suggest is you going for a GEMS ECU but you will be restricted to how much power the P1 can push before the engine goes pop, ie not that much if you want to run the car safely!
Tony
What i would suggest is you going for a GEMS ECU but you will be restricted to how much power the P1 can push before the engine goes pop, ie not that much if you want to run the car safely!
Tony
04 July 2002, 08:52 PM
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Tek 3 is available for the P1 now. In fact I can repgrogram a P1 ECU using a MY00 UK car, but it won't start the engine because of the (presumably deliberate?) switch of the cam and crank sensors.
Disagree re getting more power out of the P1. If you remap the ignition with some car you can make the ignition maps much safer.
How can a P1 or STi with a VF28 and forged pistons and arguably a slightly better inter"heater"
be any less safe than a UK car with a VF28 and cast pistons running the same boost if they are correctly mapped, when some are happily running +4 to 5 PSI over standard STi/P1 boost at peak power on these cars if setup properly? Especially when you can change the standard 11 degrees of retardability from the standard ECU to say up to 16 degrees in the most suspect areas quite happily by creating a conservative low octane map and slightly tweaking some compensation maps to make it arguably safer on 95 RON than the PPP ECU on a UK car which in places not very sensibly has the low octane map more advanced than the high octane map and can retard a maximum of 6 degrees? And yes, if you up the boost with the sort of ignition timing the PPP uses in places it can actually be retarding -6 degrees 
even on lots of octane. At the boost it is designed for fine, but at higher boost it is way too advanced.
Up to 16 degrees may sound faintly ridiculous (but the maps are REALLY advanced), but given that a lot of ECUs can take off 10 or more and then the STi/P1 maps are very advanced indeed compared to the UK ones AND that we are running higher boost AND on potentially lower octane then it might not be quite so mad. Give the ECU the option of doing so where it sees detonation and give it some teeth to actually do something about it. You then widen the safety margins and make use of enhanced performance with a cushion of safety to fall back on. Just my 2p.
[Edited by john banks - 7/4/2002 9:00:21 PM]
Disagree re getting more power out of the P1. If you remap the ignition with some car you can make the ignition maps much safer.
How can a P1 or STi with a VF28 and forged pistons and arguably a slightly better inter"heater"
be any less safe than a UK car with a VF28 and cast pistons running the same boost if they are correctly mapped, when some are happily running +4 to 5 PSI over standard STi/P1 boost at peak power on these cars if setup properly? Especially when you can change the standard 11 degrees of retardability from the standard ECU to say up to 16 degrees in the most suspect areas quite happily by creating a conservative low octane map and slightly tweaking some compensation maps to make it arguably safer on 95 RON than the PPP ECU on a UK car which in places not very sensibly has the low octane map more advanced than the high octane map and can retard a maximum of 6 degrees? And yes, if you up the boost with the sort of ignition timing the PPP uses in places it can actually be retarding -6 degrees even on lots of octane. At the boost it is designed for fine, but at higher boost it is way too advanced.Up to 16 degrees may sound faintly ridiculous (but the maps are REALLY advanced), but given that a lot of ECUs can take off 10 or more and then the STi/P1 maps are very advanced indeed compared to the UK ones AND that we are running higher boost AND on potentially lower octane then it might not be quite so mad. Give the ECU the option of doing so where it sees detonation and give it some teeth to actually do something about it. You then widen the safety margins and make use of enhanced performance with a cushion of safety to fall back on. Just my 2p.
[Edited by john banks - 7/4/2002 9:00:21 PM]
04 July 2002, 10:41 PM
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http://www.johnbanks.dsl.pipex.com/ sorry the website is very basic and under construction - see the links for more detailed information.
There are of course many other ECU remapping products and suppliers available, and there are lots of posts and information on the BBS to help you decide which product and supplier is right for your needs.
There are of course many other ECU remapping products and suppliers available, and there are lots of posts and information on the BBS to help you decide which product and supplier is right for your needs.
05 July 2002, 01:14 AM
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John,
i think that we both know that the "forged pistons" are a "cough cough" myth and that not many people would run these cars above 330bhp without upgrading quite alot.
Running a full decat exhaust and an induction kit in itself should be good to push a P1 over 300bhp, you may even get boost spikes during hot days with this (thus the ammount of engine failures on P1's?)
Even the most experienced mappers would be quite conservative on the older type STI engine, and even then they would probably prefer if the car had a FMIC and uprated internals to cope with the added stresses.
I think one of the reasons that Prodrive didnt enhance the performance of the P1 was the fact that people would do basic modifications to the car anyway and that adding more power could cause untold engine failures later in life of the car
and these are the people who work with this engine on a daily basis...
You never know thou...
Tony
i think that we both know that the "forged pistons" are a "cough cough" myth and that not many people would run these cars above 330bhp without upgrading quite alot.
Running a full decat exhaust and an induction kit in itself should be good to push a P1 over 300bhp, you may even get boost spikes during hot days with this (thus the ammount of engine failures on P1's?)
Even the most experienced mappers would be quite conservative on the older type STI engine, and even then they would probably prefer if the car had a FMIC and uprated internals to cope with the added stresses.
I think one of the reasons that Prodrive didnt enhance the performance of the P1 was the fact that people would do basic modifications to the car anyway and that adding more power could cause untold engine failures later in life of the car
and these are the people who work with this engine on a daily basis...You never know thou...
Tony
05 July 2002, 02:06 AM
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Im sure they didnt modify too much, as prodrive/subaru have to stand over the car for 60,000 miles/3 years. Why bother increasing performance on a car that goes OK, to increase the chances of it blowing up.
05 July 2002, 11:59 AM
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Are there any STi 5/6/P1 without forged pistons? Yes they have the same conrods as the UK cars.
Boost spikes are more likely on a COLD day not a hot day. It is preferable to map it so that these do not occur.
The intake temperatures have enough reserve to increase the boost a little on the original intercooler *if you are sensible*
Of course we would love to map with the best possibly intercooling and a bigger turbo and uprated internals, but a lot of people want a modest increase in power.
Boost spikes are more likely on a COLD day not a hot day. It is preferable to map it so that these do not occur.
The intake temperatures have enough reserve to increase the boost a little on the original intercooler *if you are sensible*
Of course we would love to map with the best possibly intercooling and a bigger turbo and uprated internals, but a lot of people want a modest increase in power.
05 July 2002, 09:07 PM
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The P1 does not have forged pistons so be very carefull!
Very few sti 5 & 6's also had them, it seems it was a factory option from new....
I had a P1, with a decat exhaust and running a Link 10 row ecu which we estimated to running 320-330bhp @ 1.3 bar boost
I would not after speaking to people in the know run it much higherthan that without doing the next step...
FMIC
Bigger turbo cos the standard one was running it's nuts off at that sort of bhp.
possibly water injection
bigger injectors
Then go internal....
The main difference for me was not the bhp increases but the drivablilty increases on the car - it would pull so much stronger on boost throughout the gears.
However there are obvious warranty implications by doing this to your car (although it's only 10 mins to swap the ecu back if something goes wrong)
Cheers
Chris
Very few sti 5 & 6's also had them, it seems it was a factory option from new....
I had a P1, with a decat exhaust and running a Link 10 row ecu which we estimated to running 320-330bhp @ 1.3 bar boost
I would not after speaking to people in the know run it much higherthan that without doing the next step...
FMIC
Bigger turbo cos the standard one was running it's nuts off at that sort of bhp.
possibly water injection
bigger injectors
Then go internal....
The main difference for me was not the bhp increases but the drivablilty increases on the car - it would pull so much stronger on boost throughout the gears.
However there are obvious warranty implications by doing this to your car (although it's only 10 mins to swap the ecu back if something goes wrong)
Cheers
Chris
06 July 2002, 06:11 PM
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Prodrive told me they don't have forged pistons & I spose they should know!
On the sti engines that were opened up no one i know found one with forged pistons unless it was a phase one engine.
Apparently it was only ever the phase one engines that had a closed deck block.
As always though to strengthen it up you could always make it into a closed deck block.... there's a thought!
As John & I said (I think!) I would not have taken my car beyond that sort of power level without spending a lot of money on making it a lot stronger to start with as they simply cannot cope.
Otherwise I spose you pays your money and takes your chance....
Cheers
Chris
On the sti engines that were opened up no one i know found one with forged pistons unless it was a phase one engine.
Apparently it was only ever the phase one engines that had a closed deck block.
As always though to strengthen it up you could always make it into a closed deck block.... there's a thought!
As John & I said (I think!) I would not have taken my car beyond that sort of power level without spending a lot of money on making it a lot stronger to start with as they simply cannot cope.
Otherwise I spose you pays your money and takes your chance....
Cheers
Chris