East2West

This is my first post people so go easy on me but, help from any EJ208WAKE gurus would be appreciated.
Vehicle: 1999 JDM GTB had it for 3yrs (75000km) when imported now has 108,000 on it. Has always worked excellent historically, regular oil changes, V-power only, 100% stock (except al aluminum blitz rad).
Worked perfect until both my turbos went for a poop a few weeks ago.

Took it to Classified Motorsports which is a well respected local import/JDM shop. They confirmed turbos were gone, pooped coolant and oil in exhaust and intercooler. Engine still sounded 100% normal at idle and putting around just zero power (obviously). They did a compression test to confirm engine wasn't pouched told them I was pretty sure there wasn't going to be an issue. 143-148-148-150psi.
They had a line on some used turbos from a client going to single. They looked good, no leaks, bearing good etc so they swapped them and my Y-pipe (down pipe???) Because it had been polluted with oil and coolant. I had them do plugs and PCV as well while they were at it thinking they were prob pouched. (They were).
So $2400 later ( after getting a quote that led me to beleive it would be in the $1600 range) my car was "fixed". We I picked it up the mechanic said it was still smoking a bit (prob still some crap in the exhaust I am assuming) and he said it seem to be ok but, mentioned that "he wasnt sure how hard the turbos hit before but....." Well the turbos hit very very hard until the second they went for a poop. Anyway....
I took the car home (10km), immediately noticed a huge drop in performance and completely different engine sound. Very very slow revving and turbos did NOT hit nearly like they did, crappy throttle response. Basically worked like there was a sock stuffed in the intake and/or exhaust and a bizarre gargle/knocking sound in the 4000rpm range.
Parked it with plans on taking it for a longer drive the next day when I did. Still worked crappy, bizarre sound with no improvement, came to the end of a road/hill and hit clutch to turn around. It dies. IT F'IN DIES!!!! Go to start it dead, wont even roll over like its siezed!!! (Note they did engine flush and oil change filter etc)
Pushed it to get it turned around and bum started it. Well engine barely runs, snappin knocking misfiring like a complete bag of crap. Checked oil looked fire but there was a puff of smoke that came from back of motor for a sec when I popped the hood. W-T-F!!!
Needless to say I am seriously choked about the situation.
They are going to look at it next week but, think the bottom end is gone because "they just go" apparently.
I have a hard time with my turbos and bottom end going within 25km of each other. Seriously as if....
I think someone messed up but, I am no mechanic. Thinking I am gonna get screwed here.

Looking for opinions, thoughts, advice anything. Finding it hard to believe I just spent $2400 dollars to drive my previous perfect working car 25km. Any help people is appreciated. Sorry for being long winded but, wanted to give the whole situation.
Thanks

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Unlucky! Defiantly sounds like bottom end failure.
And to be honest mate,you should never use engine flush in these engines!!!

Khandaris

No expert, but could the change in turbos have lead to detonation and killed the bottom end if they weren't mapped in correctly?

NOSSY_89

When the turbos go they can starve the engine of oil which can lead to the bottom end going. Its happened to me so I know the feeling

If it is that then try sourcing a short block and from what you said I wouldn't bother going back to that garage. It just don't seem to add up

East2West

Thanks for the comments guys, I would hope they knew about engine flushes but, they said they did it to ensure there was no particles or crap that was going through the motor. Figured there was some logic in that? With respect to the mapping, didnt think they needed to do any if they replaced it with stock turbos but, i don't have a clue. As far as i understand they just cleared the codes. Didnt realize the oil starvation issue which is interesting. I did have to limp it on the hwy for an hour to get it to the shop but I did make sure the oil level stayed up. Maybe I ended up screwing it up. But, like i said there was zero strange noises etc at any point, PRIOR to the turbo replacement. Just no power at higher rpm.
I have sourced an entire motor that is being advertised as an EJ206/EJ208 for a 96-98 jdm legacy but, according to wiki there seems to have been some "overlap" in models as they changed generations in the 98-99 time frame. Any thoughts on this guys?
I plan on emailing the company to verify what it actually came out of. Motor has 76k on it with >150psi in all cylinders so it seems solid.
Here's the wiki link siting the 2nd-3rd gen overlap.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Legacy
Thanks again for your thoughts guys keep it coming.
Cheers.

East2West

....gents I thought I posted a reply to all your comments, did any of you guys see it.... Or do i not have a clue what i am doing? (Entirely possible? 😁

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

No what was your reply? You've only posted twice and the second post is what you've just posted.
Was the knocking just freddy krueger trying to get into your dreams

East2West

Sorry guys, ossett2k2 confirmed that my other reply did not go through from the day after you guys commented. So here goes again...
Thank you guys for the comments/info, glad to know engine flushes aren't recommended, i guess they should know that but, they did one incase some turbo bits had made it into the engine, seemed like a good idea.
With respect to the mapping i thought theh just needed to clear a couple codes on the ECU with no mapping required since they were just replacing the stock turbos with stock turbos (???) And as far as I know the ECUs on the EJ208 can't be messed with anyway but, that was just what I read.
I have sourced what I beleive is a replacement motor that is being advertised as an EJ206/EJ208 for a 1996-1998 Jdm Legacy with 76,000 on it and over 150psi in all cylinders. So this a question for any of you guys, mine is a 1999 but the engines look identical and according to wikipedia the 2nd gen (93-99) and the 3rd gen (98-04) overlapped so I am thinking this motor should be fine, any thoughts on this. Here's a link to the wiki info https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Legacy.

Again guys thanks for the info very much appreciated....still no update from the shop. 🙅
....

East2West

Lol nice! No Freddy Krueger nightmares.....just my F'in cheque book stabbing me in my sleep. 😏
.

East2West

Well the owner from the shop called me back with what he found. Apparently I have a spun rod bearing which he tells me is sadly very common and that they see at least one a month at their shop. From what he is telling me there seems to be no explanation as to why yhis happens and at s many different intervals and says that Mitsu's don't have the issue. I voiced my concerns with my whole experience and he offered to cut me a cash break on the labour for new motor and also offered to talk to one of his regular subaru clients to see if he had a decent bottom end to get me going. Any thought on this guys, seems like I somehow managed some double jeopardy with my rig which is pretty had to swallow. I am gonna have to unload this thing next fall and try something different. Really really disappointed since the reason I had imported a suby was because of the 300,000+ km I had on my 2001 NA forester... 😥

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

As long as it's well maintained and using quality oil then there is no reason a Subaru engine won't last as long as any other tbh:
Just don't stick crappy engine flush in your next motor.

NOSSY_89

Do you what I think has happened, and it isn't confirmation but could be a real indicator. Check the PCV valve and see if it has stuck, if so and as weird as it might seem but that has killed your engine. Check you old turbos that blew, if there is no shaft play at all it was the seals. Did you notice any random oil leaks when your turbos were on their way out.

Also its quite strange there isn't much talk of the PCV valve on UK forums although they are often removed/bypassed. They should be changed from what I have read on other forums every 15,000-30,000 miles.

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

Please do enlighten us as to how a pcv valve will cause bottom end failure?

East2West

Hi Nossy, thanks for your comment. My PCV was screwed so I had them replace it when they did my turbos because based on what I have read historically it should have been due I had planned on replacing it before my turbos went. Seals were def gone on one turbo for sure so that was prob PCV related I would think. The nut holding the turbine on (turbo #1) backed off and the nut subsequently came loose and went into the turbine. I am still thinking, based on someone's earlier comment that the bottom end was starved with oil when I ran it with the bad turbos. I just don't understand why I didn't hear any odd noiseys warning me it was going, even when idling.
The frustrating parts is that the mechanic did not have an explanation as to why the motor was working like it was choked off. ...
Or is this a symptom of BE failure???
Anyway, because I am convinced there is something else wrong with the motor I am gonna replace it and not rebuild the other.
Thanks again for the comment. Cheers.

NOSSY_89

Is that sarcasm right there lol

I probably should have explained in a bit more detail. But thought if anyone was interested in the full story they would google it

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/...our-pcv-valve/

The PCV Valve doesn't directly cause bottom end failure but starts off a chain reaction which you could argue causes the engine to give up. When its blocked oil tries to get out of anywhere it can so the rocker cover gaskets, crank seals, turbo seals etc start to leak oil.

When the turbo goes it ends up starving the bottom end but why did the turbo go. Its because of the seals which were killed by the PCV valve. If you look at your gauges with and without a blocked PCV you will notice a difference.

Now the disclaimer, I'm not trying to get all keyboard warrior on you even though I thought you were. But after having a look it could be a genuine question because my previous statement wasn't all that clear

I went through it so I know

Mate thats what happens the bottom end gets starved of oil. The thing is by the time you hear the noise its normally too late and when it is starved the damage is normally done. I haven't stripped mine yet to see how bad it was

Put a new trubo on to test and oil was leaking from a number of places. Then changed the PCV Valve and there was a massive difference. Obviously the engine had blown already and there was oil coming from the crank seal but it wasn't like it used to.

East2West

Ok, well tht explains it then, I prob should have had the PCV done sooner than later. It just looked like a bit of a nightmare for a none mehanic like myself to do. Honestly the PCV was totally on my radar since I had read some posts about it and so I had nightmares about having major engine issues as a result of a $20 part, well mate, the nightmare is now a $5000 repair. I would have done it earlier but, i work in remote areas and JDM service is not always easy to come by so it got put off. Hard lesson learned.
Thanks again for the info Nossy_89.

jason_2013

East2west, is your legacy a revision d?


1999 could be, I can't remember the change point. Anyway it makes a difference because even though it has the same ej206/8 engine code of earlier revision a,b,c, the engine is a bit different. The main being the pistons on the revision d are higher compression. I think 9:1 on d and 8.5:1 on a-c. Also the revision d uses the denso fuel system with pink top feed injectors. Make sure if you use an earlier engine that you swap the crankshaft sprocket over as this is different. (the trigger for crank sensor doesn't match)


Basically you can use the earlier engines in the revision d as long as you are aware and get it tuned to suit. Revision d has denso ecu similar to newage impreza and is mappable. Revision d engines for gtb are hard to find.


Lastly, change your airflow meter as all that oil going through the inlet from the blown turbo will have killed it

East2West

Crap, I am just realizing NOW that I did not respond to this last post, my apologies. Thank you very much jason_2013 for the info. What you describe matches pretty much exactly what I had read on wiki re: the D revision of the EJ208. See below:

"EJ208 Edit
Usage:

1998-2003 Legacy chassis code BE5/BH5 JDM GT's, GT-B's and B4's (206 kW (280 PS; 276 bhp)) Transmission: Manual
BH5A - 8.5:1 Compression - "Phase-II", or V5/6 generation.
BH5B - 8.5:1 Compression - "Phase-II", or V5/6 generation.
BH5C - 9.0:1 Compression - "Phase-II", or V5/6 generation.
BH5D - 9.0:1 Compression - "Phase-III", or V7 generation.

Rev D EJ208's can be considered a totally different motor to the A/B/C's, they run totally different cams, cam pulleys with different timing marks, different crank sprocket with different timing marks, pink 550cc injectors instead of yellow 440's, different intake manifold design. etc.

A/B have primary VF25 for automatic transmission or VF26 for manual and secondary VF27 turbo's.
C have primary VF31 and secondary VF32 turbo's.
D have primary VF33 (46.5 / 35.4 mm 9-blade turbine wheel and a 47.0 mm / 35.4 mm 6 + 6 blade compressor) and secondary VF32 (exhaust side it uses a 46.5 / 35.4 mm 9-blade turbine wheel, teamed with a 52.5 / 36.6 mm 10-blade compressor wheel). All secondary turbos are ball bearing and primary turbos are journal bearing."

Basically as I understand it, if I can find an EJ208 with pink top feed injectors and the VF33 and VF32 turbos it should be a rev D and thus a perfect match to my EJ208DWAKE. I am waiting to hear from a seller who thinks they may have a match. Fingers crossed. Thanks again for the info. Cheers!: