Cpt Jack Sparrow

iTrader: (14)

At what point would you set warning lights on a 2.5 engine

Water temp
Oil temp
Low oil pressure

And for the funny guys 'not when the engine starts'

scoobiepaul

100 degrees oil/ water temp, 2.8 bar oil pressure.

Cpt Jack Sparrow

iTrader: (14)

Ta Very much

Anko Dragt

Id put water to 95Degrees,
Oil to 110 degrees(100degrees is perfectly fine for good synth oil).
Oil pressure minimum alarm 1.5 bar.

Tidgy

don't set oil to 110, if you have to back off cos of temps they still go up for a bit so could hit 115-120 if you set it to that.

95 is a good point, if your seeing temps over that then oil cooler would be a good buy, just make sure its thermostaticly controlled

Anko Dragt

Again, 120, even 130 degrees is nothing to worry about for short periods of time with good oil.. Check the stats of the manufacturer.
As long as you will keep driving (how fast doesnt matter) the oil temp wont rise.
Oil is made to perform best at 100 degrees.. so why put the alarm at the best operating temp....

I would not buy a cooler if temps never rise over 110 even in spirited driving. there is no point doing so. more pipework, and if the cooler gets hit by a rock or something, out goes the oil. a few days later out goes the engine.. stock heat exchanger is capable of bringing hot oil down to 95 degrees.

However, it does depends on where the oil temp sensor is located. The above only counts for sensor mounting in the oil galley.
Sensor mounted in a plate at the filter, i wouldnt even bother putting the alarm on, as the reading is false 90% of the time due to airflow over it whilst driving.

Tidgy

Zen's old time attack cooked when oil temps hit 125 degree's.

You wanna run at 130 degree's then good luck with that, i wouldn't

Anko Dragt

You are reading what you want to read. I said 130 degrees for SHORT periods of time (eg, 3, 4 minutes). not complete trackday stints.
This is, as long as the watertemp does not exceed normal limit.


If the oil cooked at 125 degrees, he wasnt using the correct oil. simple as that. Castrol, Valvoline, Motul etc al say up to 150 degrees oil wont be killed but it will shorten life if done for longer periods of time.

Tidgy

It's time attack, so a lap then back off.

If you want to disagree then thats your choice, but i dont know any tuner in the uk saying 130 degree's is ok.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

I agree Tidgy.
I think 95 is a bit low for oil temps warning especially if you're on track, but we are talking about a road car so a conservative setting would be better for the general well being of the engine.

What do you know of Paul and the car he campaigned? Paul would never skimp on quality. His attention to detail is well documented and acknowledged, and to suggest he would use inferior oil is just a statement born of ignorance.
Who needs to test the limits of what the oil will withstand? We're talking about enjoying your road car, not setting records for oil durability. If the motor goes pop are you going to take the broken bits back to the oil manufacturer for a bit of compensation? Yeah right.

Edited to add - Paul would also have had his oil supplied as part of a sponsorship deal, so the question of oil quality is simply rediculous.

Anko Dragt

How did we get to 100 degrees operating temps to saying that 130degrees operating temp is too high?

even on a road car 100 degrees oil temp is nothing to worry about.
Than, why put a flashing and beeping alarm on that temp...??? Beepbeepbeep, ah, my oil is up to normal op. temp... Makes absolutely no sense.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

I think you're missing the point Anko.
I don't see anyone questioning what the highest temperatures are that good quality oil might withstand.
What we're talking about is offering advice on a sensible setting for someone (who I happen to know personally) so that he can safely operate his engine without pushing the limits of the protection offered by the oil.
As Tidgy has said if the alarm goes off at 95 it will possibly rise a further 5 or 10 degrees after you back off. This is not a race engine, it's somebody's daily driver, so where's the harm in being a little cautious?

Anko Dragt

Totally agree with that, however ive seen people been scared to death when their gauge started beeping at 100.. the engine wont blow up once the engine goes to 101..

100 degrees is fairly easy to get to with some spirited driving, and having a gauge beeping or flashing while your having fun on a twisty backroad isnt the most enjoyable thing

I have never seen oil temps rise after backing off. could be due to sensor mounting, or due to different driving style, dont know.

I drive alot of trackdays, In my DD. (last year about 5000km of tracktime.), no oilcooler, engine has 235k km, oil pressure is incredible low (3 bar max under full rpm), oil continiously went to around 110 to 120. engine never skips a beat..

I like to think an alarm is for when something really goes bad...
Like rotated bearings or broken ones.. in wich case the temps will go up to 130 under normal driving

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

I think this is the real problem, not oil temperatures. Oil slop during tight cornering causes largely unseen oil pressure drops at a time when you are about to plant the right foot again. I have an RCM Gp N baffled sump and I still get oil surge on tight corners at speed (on track), so I'm sure engines with standard sumps fare worse then mine.
High temperatures and low pressures = big bills.

If it gets to this stage there isn't an alarm on Earth that will save you

Anko Dragt

I have both of the big bill ingredients.. (and a stock sump) and has been so for over 25k km now.. I have a new forged block waiting to get in, but even with a 20G, engine wont break....

It does save from a very costly thing called ''close track temporarily to remove oil from track''

Back on topic; operating temps between 90-100 are fine. an alarm 5 to 10 degrees above that is fine.. adjust as you like to not get beeping alarms whilst having fun.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

It's better to be lucky than good I suppose.

TECHNOPUG

iTrader: (1)

Surely you need to monitor temps/pressure during normal & spirited driving and set alarms accordingly.

For example, if during typical spirited driving, that you would do regularly, the oil temp never goes beyond 105, then that would be a sensible place to set the alarm. If you aren't pushing harder for longer, than you usually do and the alarm triggers, it would suggest an issue.

Setting alarm for temps before you have a baseline figure, seems daft.

Cpt Jack Sparrow

iTrader: (14)

Thanks for this BBY, yes daily driver, or even less than that now, does not get hooned or tracked.

just looking for some sensible levels to set the warnings at so they are not going off every 10 mins but do give a warning when needed.

When the new forged engine goes in that will be a different story all together...

Just putting the prep / simple stuff into the car in advanve of the big engine build project.......

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

No problem mate.
The new build sounds interesting.

Cpt Jack Sparrow

iTrader: (14)

yes was going to keep it quiet til it started but it seems to have slipped out lol

Cpt Jack Sparrow

iTrader: (14)

oh and the beeps are turned off its just a warning light flashing...

no beepbeepbeeping as you put it

Cpt Jack Sparrow

iTrader: (14)

thanks to all who gave valid advice, warnings have been set now.