Brett-wv14

Hi just curious on how many of you use open source yourself? I want to get into it to add fmic ect i already have race dynamix tune

brendy76

iTrader: (6)

There are at least a few of us.

Reshard1977

iTrader: (17)

I would like to do the same, but from what i can gather, its very complicated, and very dangerous. One mistake, and the engine could go bang.

Although, I'm not sure if this is the truth, or just the general feeling because hardly anyone has a go at doing it?

brendy76

iTrader: (6)

I think ignorance has a lot to do with it. Many people think that because it isnt ecutek then its going to explode. Its the absolute opposite. With open source you can export your rom from the ecu and study it and learn (from both logging how the car runs under different conditions and also from the forums out there specifically for this subject).
I had a rough idea of how an engine worked before buying the tactrix kit etc did a bit of reading then made single slight changes to boost, timing and turning off certain switches when removing cats etc. A lot of it is straight forward. Yes if you make massive changes or mistakenly change a field in say, timing way beyond the engines capabilities then it can have a detrimental effect. Ive been modifying my ecu rom since Feb 2012 and havent killed anything. This includes configuring for sti pink injectors, larger turbo, decat uppipe and also a full decat turbo back exhaust.
softly softly as you learn and its a very rewarding experience...

Brett-wv14

I take my hat off to you sir. Im currently in the process of hours of research to get to know and understand the process. I have a million and one questions to ask if you ever have the time ha.

stevemoir

iTrader: (24)

Nothing wrong with opensource mapping

Had mine mapped up until the maf voltage exceeded the limits 450ish it's was running perfect

Went to syvecs after that brill piece of kit

If your not going above the limits opensource is the way ahead

In the old days I ran a normal map and a methmap by the use of a tactrix open port

Got a hawk sti now and have got ecutek no difference whatsoever

Hth

Steve

Brett-wv14

I want to add a fmic. I already have been mapped by duncan race dynamix for
3" inch tbe
3 port
Walbro 255

Would it be an easy start just adding a front mount to that map?

sivo

iTrader: (30)

I bought a tactrix with the intention of learning how to map my own car as I was really curious as to how difficult it may be.
Whilst it really is a piece of pi$$ to flash a new rom to your ecu changing all the different parameters to make sure your engine is running safely is a whole new ball game.
There is a lot of info on romraider and the data logger is a good programme but without the relevant knowledge you are risking toasting your car.
I bought my blob STI pretty cheap and took a punt on it knowing that I wanted one with a forged engine, I now have that and the whole package ows me about 10k.
After all the research I did i came to the conclusion that my hard earned is best spent in the hand of an expert.
You can go open source or ecutek £300 - £500 and IMO it's worth every penny, bob Rawle mapped my car and it's a joy to drive, it's only 342 bhp but with the right suspension set up it makes for a very quick road car.
Don't go chasing numbers, it's how it feels on the road that counts.

Siv

Brett-wv14

Yea i know what your saying. I really like the whole car scene and playing with my car in the unit i like to feel involved hooking up a laptop and tweaking for new parts i feel would be very pleasing. Im only thinking as a temporary measure for little mods. When i have fitted these little mods i was going to get in mapped by a pro anyway its just the period of having and collectibg the mods and not using them until i have them all for the mapper. I hate waitibg and im on a step by step budget. So would help my situation if i could.

sivo

iTrader: (30)

That's fair comment and i know all about the need to tinker but i personally would drive off boost until it was mapped by a pro as the slightest change to parameters CAN have a knock on effect to your whole map.
Bob charges about 150-180 for a map tweak so you get a thorough health check and piece of mind every time you fit upgrades.
Bob will leave no stone un turned and out of the 4 mappers ive used he really is the best, hes not the most talkative kind of guy but if your like me and and enjoy giving your car a boll@cking on a regular basis then you can appreciate the talent of this man, the engine is faultless and it just keeps coming back for more.
Pop down and see simon at chevron he will always give you sound fact based advise and in my experience bend over backwards to help you.
Simon is widely known for his suspension expertise but he knows everything there is to know about engine building, turbo,s and any upgrades you care to throw at him.
just to add, and its just my opinion, i have met a lot of people through scoobynet and a lot of talented mechanics and engineers, Frayz springs to mind, he has spent a small fortune on his bug and done all the work himself but as far as i know he wouldnt map his own car

https://www.scoobynet.com/projects-4...the-build.html

Siv

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Correct, I built prototype development engines for 12 years worth hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Still left my mapping to the late, great Simon Roe.

euan_r

iTrader: (29)

Don't let the nae sayers put you off. It's not the investment in equipment but the time it takes logging, small changes and logging again and again that's the downfall. Also doing the research into what does what and target values to aim for.

I've been doing my fxt for a few years now using open source whilst awaiting esl for my 00 type r. It's good to know how engine is running in more detail and spot any issues.

It's all very well saying let the pros do it but map is only one part. What happens if sensor changes output and not spotted, climate changes etc. Also have a lot longer refining than just a limited time slot.

The pros and cons are not as straight forward as most of usual replies on these types of thread make out, as they don't come from those with any personal experience.

sivo

iTrader: (30)

I completely agree with what you say, in my experience, when i bought my tactrix and started logging it was slowly becoming apparent what values did what and how it affected other parameters.
The man hours it would of taken me to be 100% compliant and confident with the complete mapping process was mind boggling, were all different and some can pick it up quicker than others, obviously a sound mechanical knowledge will give someone a head start.
Im not saying that a pro will do a better job than joe bloggs who is self taught but for me personally using a well respected mapper gave me the peace of mind i was looking for.

Siv

Brett-wv14

Well iv really gone off the whole idea now ha. I have the time and patience to learn about something im passionate about but i do appreciate how techinal it is. I was willing to take a course or some sort if available.

sivo

iTrader: (30)

I'm not sure how these pro mappers become pro mappers, it's like some kind of secret code or something.
Let's face it if all the information on mapping was easily available we would all be mapping our own cars and not paying silly money for it.
I'm sorry if I may have put you off the idea but I was at the same stage you are at now about a year ago and I was convinced I could do it until I started delving deeper.
Theres nothing stopping you still learning and data logging your car Just don't be too hasty on making changes, get the right advise from someone who knows what's what, but there lies the problem, experts are reluctant to spill the beans so to speak.

Siv

Brett-wv14

yea i think im going give the data logging a shot. and take it from there. apparently i dont need to tune a fmic for safety just for a performance gain so i can start to log and watch what changes that makes. will be interesting. sivo have you ever map tweaked for TGV delete?

sivo

iTrader: (30)

No I havnt mate, the best advise I could give is to get on romraider and ask the same question, the yanks are pretty helpful, there may even be a base map you can download and copy and paste the sections that you need onto your rom file using ecuflash
You might want to post some data logs up on there first so people can have a look and point you in the right direction.

Hth

Siv

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

A lot has been said above and there will always be the doer's and donter's.

A bit like the guy that takes his car to the dealer for a service and the guy that does it himself.
The bloke that does it himself knows exactly what's been done/changed, whereas the bloke that uses the dealer 'Assumes !!!!' every thing has been done by the book.

You pay your money you take your choice.

Every mapper has been a DIY/Hobby mapper at some point, as there really isn't any big book out there to read.

Get the tactrix cable, get a wideband 02 sensor, make up some detcan's from some ear defender, copper pipe and a rubber hose. Then spend time reading Romraider, Naisoc Open Source, OpenECU.org and take things slowly.

The detcans and wideband will soon be shouting at you if you get things wrong.
You will learn so much doing it yourself, and you will then have the ability to ultra fine tune to however your driving style suites.

You'll soon get to see from other maps floating around what a standard car look like and what the likes of Prodrive do.

What I will say is :

Do not start comparing other home tune maps until you have a good understanding of the standard or Prodrive map. You don't know how good that home tuner is !!!!!!

Do not flash another persons map into your car unless you fully understand the changes and the cars specification

Do keep an eye on your long term IAM (this will self-learn)
Do keep an eye on your AF Learning #D (this will also self-learn) if you change induction or injectors.
Both the above will alter the running over time, if things are not set quite perfect (even a stock car self learns)
So do not take the few runs after a reflash as gospel.

sivo

iTrader: (30)

Great post ^^^^^

I would have to agree.
If I had the talent and understanding I wouldn't hesitate mapping my own car.

Good luck to anyone who can do it themselves

Siv

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Then there's the opinion of investing £10k+ in a motor and attempting to map it yourself.
I dare say I couold have mapped my own car. But to what gain really? Mapping costs nothing when you factor in the experience the top guys have.
These guys write engine calibrations day in, day out. That's what they do.

Could I have got the power out of mine that Simon Roe did? Probably not, it would have taken ages and would have been a massive learning curve.
I build engines, I'll stick to what I do, and let them stick to what they do.

Experience is priceless IMO.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I'm inclined to agree. A 10K rebuild is not the time to learn how to remap.
A standard of mildly modified car, preferably your own, is a better place to be.

Even the infamous JGM started as a hobbiest, and worked at the same MOD Engineering firm as me. Infact he sat 3 seats from my current location.
He even ran one of my ScoobyECU chips (which I worked on/devleoped as a hobby) in the famous Jolly Green Monster Wagon way back in about 2004 (ish).

He then purchased a Link ECU and with the help of another well known mapper of the time, started to learn how to work it. He then migrated onto Apexi-PFC and Open Source 2001> before becoming an ECUTEK dealer.
So you can see that even the most talked about mapper on this forum started as a hobbiest like myself. It was only a change of work circumstance that turned him into a commercial mapper that you all remember him for.

I don't mean this to be a history lesson or a life story of the much missed and admired JGM. But I am just trying to convey the possibilities for anyone considering having a go at their own mapping.

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Yeah I agree we all start somewhere dude.

It's just I'm not so sure how many think that they can get a laptop and an OBD cable and start adjusting engine cals and bobs your mothers brother.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Agree....research.....research...research.
It's not rocket science but you do need to read and digest.
The biggest problem is there is a lot of info out there and a lot of it you don't need and a lot of it is incorrect.
You will only figure what's what with experience.
Take it slow and don't expect a result from the 1st flash.

It normally takes me about 10-12 flashes to be comfortable I have covered all bases, and that's with previous knowledge of what maps are available and which need adjusting and which don't.

Study a stock ROM. They got it right.

Do you need to know exactly how the ECU is coded, no.
Although some people make it their lifes mission to understand ten tenth's of all the eCU's background tasks and maintenance. Whereas you only probably need 4 tenth's to understand the maps and how they interact (i.e how the 'Map' to each other, hence the term mapping).

sivo

iTrader: (30)

I'm all for encouraging diy mapping and I think it's great.
But at the same time people need to be aware of the pitfalls, even brickin your ecu is going to cost you a tidy sum, running lean for a few weeks will ultimately put your block on a bench.
So really we should embrace those that have the skill to map there own cars and as enthusiasts we should warn people without the relevant knowledge how it can all go horribly wrong.

Siv

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

If they use a good wideband probe and don't rely on the Pseudo wideband fitted then that scenario should not really arise.
I wouldn't want to rely on a 10 year old lambda probe to get my fuelling right.

I've lost count of the amount of probes I've used.
Although the clamp loosening and having them spat out of the rear pipe whilst doing a 3rd gear pull doesn't help.

Tidgy

biggest problem with open source is lack of any sort of software support when summit doesnt go to plan. If its done by ecutek and theres a problem then ecutek help to solve the problem.

The mapper is more important than the software in my opinion. you ted to find ecutek wont just deal with anyone

sivo

iTrader: (30)

It would be great to see a definitive do's and dont's list for those who want to give it a go, thing is though I can't help thinking that there are plenty out there making adjustments without widebands or det cans.

Followed by a post "who's the best engine builder"

Siv

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Enduring solutions have done a great live mapping software manual
I will be starting down the self mapping route early next year but will be taking things very slowly,a lot of logging,more reading and very small changes. I will be in no rush to try and achieve the perfect map for my car and any future hardware modifications I decide to make.
I'm under no illusions that it's easy,far from it but I'm really looking forward to learning

Brett-wv14

Do you think its crucial to fully understand the engine first? I mean theres still a lot of pipes ect i wouldnt know what theyre for or i couldnt point out exactly whats what and its purpose. i know a map is linked directly to the engine but could a mapper fully know the ins and outs of a map without fully knowing the engine?

brendy76

iTrader: (6)

If you are tweaking a standard car that has been solid beforehand, Id say its not essential but advisable. During tweaking it would be useful to know which vacuum pipes affect what etc so you know what to look for should you not be able to achieve an expected outcome ie boost level etc.