DeweyAXD

Hi Guys

Calling those that have experience with Delta Dash/Road Dyno. Or can read a log file.

I've been out logging over the last couple of days and the Road Dyno results are proving a bit concerning.

The car setup is based on my vehicle details (tyres, gearing etc) and a weighbridge based weight (measured 2 days ago).

Road Dyno is showing 185 bhp at the wheels. Using the 20% transfer loss rule that Shaun kindly discussed in his excellent thread this is looking at 222 bhp... from 2.5 Sti with Forged pistons and running on Vmax in cool night air I feel something is up!

This shows the Road Dyno result...


Performance Report:

After this run I did another logging the data. I wanted to show the highlights here in code but it doesn't work. The whole log is attached.

Same setup - 3rd gear dropped to 1800rpm then floored until the rev limiter (just like the Road Dyno run).

I should note that I use the same road on all logs so there is a genuine real world consistency. Two nights ago I got 3 runs ranging from 182bhp to 189bhp so still nothing near the power output i'd expect unless there was an issue. The run on here is one at 22.30pm so nice cool dense air!

I am hoping the is some kind soul with Delta Dash experience that might cast their eye over the log file to see if there is something obvious? The plan is to get it mapped this year but I want to be sure it is a car in good health before this.

Any help would be greatly welcome!

jimbob9875

iTrader: (1)

Hi

I dont actually use delta dash but I had a quick look at your log and i think your logging too much at a time it is taking info around every 0.5 secs if im looking at it corectly - the ecu can do a lot of adjustments in 0.5 sec.

After this we would need more info on the vehicle before comenting - what mods and is it on std map or has it been mapped already -

i have removed some extra colums from your log and can see so far that there is some knock correction but i am not 100% sure it is the correct 1 we need to be looking at -

What are you using to make your logs?

DeweyAXD

Thanks bud. Just someone viewing it is a good start.

Other than the things menitioned in my signature (the work API did after HG leakage) it is 100% stock on the standard map.

The Road Dyno feature of Delta Dash uses pre-determined attributes from the ECU to come up with the bhp at the wheel figures... for that reason I don't think it can be logging too much info that causes the final output figures of Road Dyno

The log files are done using the Delta Dash live logging. This allows me to add or remove a bunch of the options that don't appear in Road Dyno. I've picked the standard ones here but I can add others and removes the non-necessary ones. This is where I really need the advice... what info would someone need to determine an undlaying issue (if that is even possible from a log).

Knock correction was of interest from this log... peaking at 9.5 degrees at 2708 rpm with 100% throttle. Problem I have is I don't know if that is out of the normal limits for a stock 2.5 engine with forged pistons running vpower?

jimbob9875

iTrader: (1)

hi

now i don't know what delta dash call these perameters but i would normally log

* Engine Load (2-byte)**
* Engine Speed
* Ignition Total Timing
* Intake Air Temperature
* Knock Sum
* Fine Learning Knock Correction
* Feedback Knock Correction
* Ignition Advance Multiplier
* Boost
* Mass Airflow
* Final Fueling Base
* Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle
* Target Boost
* Throttle Opening Angle
* Wideband O2

these may be called something different in delta dash, also if you dont have a wideband 02 then you will struggle to see what afr`s you have as you are looking at open loop fueling and on a standard map it will be a lot richer than the standard 02 can cope with -- you could really do with knowing your afr`s when trying to solve a low power issue. but see if you can log these and post back - my logs have around 60 lines per full wot pull - the log you posted only has 20 lines so hopefully after that we might see something -

The Pink Ninja

iTrader: (23)

Is that bhp figure per tonne by any chance

Edit... no I've just read it properly this time

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Bob Rawle is the guy to analyse that for you. He'll be along soon.

David APi

DeweyAXD

Thanks David... Bob was my next port of call for advice as he'll likely be the person i'll be taking it to for mapping (helps i'm only 35mins from Swindon but I think he also maps at your place from time to time?)

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Dave - Been talking to Bob today he is fully booked for March, even for best customers like me

So sit tight, DO NOT PANIC and we'll get you sorted. Map here is probably the easiest.

David

DeweyAXD

Yes thought he'd be a busy boy. To be honest I was in no rush to map yet anyway as it seems a little fruitless on a stock setup (although right now i feel that may not be the case).

If I'd of had the car a while before the rebuild I would probably have sensed there was something 'not perfect' but it runs sweatly. Only thing is it has never really felt 'much' punchier than my 03 WRX PPP did imo. That would make sense if these logs/Road Dyno's are even close in accuracy!

I'll see if he catches this thread and if not i'll give him a nudge.

DeweyAXD

Sorry Jimbob I meant to acknowledge this. I will take a look tonight at what there is (don't have the DD laptop with me here). I think a variant of most of those are present. The wideband O2 sensor would be good but to be honest it is probably overkill for what I need right now especially if it will need a mapping session to resolve. What I am hoping from the logs I have is that maybe someone like Bob can look at them and say 'wow that ain't right'. If not then it'll have to wait till i can get a proper mapping done.

Bob Rawle

Hi, just back from Chester le Street and saw your PM, I will have a look at all this tomorrow evening after I am back from Stafford !!

First question is what gearing did you use, its not any of the std sets in DD it needs a custom set inputting

What was the weigh bridge weighing, car or car plus you ?

cheers

bob

Bob Rawle

BTW do not get hung up over "knock correction" its not correction at all its the value from the ignition compensation map that the ecu adds to the base ignition factored by the AM, in your case its ading the whole of the map.

You need to log the 2004 correction for retard. And its best to set boost to read in bar not psig and log internal boost not relative or absolute.

Turn off all the digital stuff its not needed for this analysis nor is the lambda learning/current etc

best regards

bob

DeweyAXD

Bob you are a star thank you in advance!

To answer the questions:

Gearing... could be the key to the underlying problem as I used DD's ratio's for 6spd Sti UK & EU. That said from a brief search now they are looking like they are correct?:

My run's were based on DD settings of...

1st: 3.636
2nd: 2.375
3rd: 1.761
4th: 1.346
5th: 0.971
6th: 0.756
FD: 3.8995

Weight... 1570kg at the weighbridge. That included 83kg's of me sitting in the car and some fuel loss since the WB taken into account.

I will setup DD to log with the parameter's you suggest and do another run (especially if I find out the ratio's are wrong!).

Thanks again... look forward to hearing your opinions on the logs.

Bob Rawle

Hi, those ratios are incorrect, your car, like mine, has much longer gearing. The Spec D is essentially the same.

So, you should be using for ratios ...
1st: 3.636
2nd: 2.235
3rd: 1.521
4th: 1.137
5th: 0.891
6th: 0.707
FD: 3.9

When quoting the figures you also need to take account of the way the software is logging the run, you have low's and high's so take the average, you do not have 185 bhp ate in the above graph the average is more like 175 bhp.

When I create graphs for people I load the exported csv file for the selected run into a spread sheet which uses a point averaging formula to further smooth this out. So the figures I quote are very averaged levels and certainly both the displayed peak as I have seen others quote.

let us know what difference the gearing change makes

cheers

bob

Bob Rawle

BTW the total vehicle mass figure you use is about right as my total vehicle mass number in my last checks was 1558, I am a bit lighter than you.

cheers

bob

DeweyAXD

Right then... out again a moment ago for another road dyno and log with the settings Bob mentioned.

The new '3rd gear 1800 rpm then floored to the limiter' log is attached.

As for road dyno well I found very little solid info on 2006 Sti UK ratios but one post suggested the TY856WG7KA box actually had these:

Weight was 1580 (as i was carrying a 10kg bag of I.T kit). So I did a run with these figures and things got a lot better.



Indeed if these ratios are correct then the 20% tranmission loss would see me at 313bhp... this now seems almost too high for an unmapped Uk 2.5 Sti running on no mods. That is unless Forged pistons alone increase BHP?

Anyway if the very kind Bob Rawle pops by to take a look at the new log and this info we shall see!

DeweyAXD

Beat me to it by seconds Bob but that all makes perfect sense. I'll reply to your pm shortly!

Bob Rawle

Thats better, your power is more like 235 bhp atw its definitely should not be taken as the peak 261, so that gives 294 bhp allowing 20% loss. Which is, for me, spot on.

If you want a copy of the spreadsheet I use can email you that

so sorted !

cheers

bob

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Seem to remember that when I road dyno'd my Spec D on Ecutek in 2007, the gear ratio for the new 6 spd box wasn't in the options box so I had to enter them as a custom gear set.
Surely Ecutek have updated this by now?

Anyway, my std engine output 4th gear run came out at 239 hp ATW for 149 hp/ton

DeweyAXD

It could well be a case that it has been updated. I have the older serial cable version of Delta Dash which they stopped updating a good few years (probably before the Hawkeye's came out). The USB cable version probably has the correct ratios by now but at least I could do the custom ratios. All good now it seems!

Bob Rawle

No its not been added, the reason that EcuTek put the "custom"option in was so they didn't have to add every single box ratio set.

Its an easy thing to do once you have that custom set entered simply save a file titled for the car model and model year then you have it forever

cheers

bob

The Pink Ninja

iTrader: (23)

I take it the Newage JDM gearing is correct in the selection box?

Bob Rawle

Any std gear set in the selection box is/should be correct, what makes you think its not ?

cheers

bob