Esl advice for new mapper
20 February 2017, 05:47 PM
#1
Scooby Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Esl advice for new mapper
Hi all
I have esl on my 94 sti.
had a bit of a play .but need some figures to work to and a way of working.
do you look at afr and richen
I have a new innovate so can get a good idea of what afr is accurately
what afr am I looking for at Idle part and wide open throttle?
is there merit in changing the ignition timing?
I have changed the map sensor to a later one and am mended the settings.
Is it worth going mafless? And if so where is the best place to fit the air temp sensor? I have seen them on the intercooler pipe going into the throttle body?
chris
I have esl on my 94 sti.
had a bit of a play .but need some figures to work to and a way of working.
do you look at afr and richen
I have a new innovate so can get a good idea of what afr is accurately
what afr am I looking for at Idle part and wide open throttle?
is there merit in changing the ignition timing?
I have changed the map sensor to a later one and am mended the settings.
Is it worth going mafless? And if so where is the best place to fit the air temp sensor? I have seen them on the intercooler pipe going into the throttle body?
chris
20 February 2017, 06:21 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: 32 cylinders and many cats
Posts: 18,658
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
General Subaru/tuning principles, not specific to 94 STI or ESL neither of which I've used.
Idle AFR 14.7. WOT, without knowing more details, many shoot for 11.5.
The details being things like octane, air & coolant temperature, cats, exhaust restrictions, condition of the engine, how much oil in the intake, how good the intercooler is, are you beasting it on track in Dubai until the tank runs dry or driving to the shops in Doncaster, what fuel type, any use of water or methanol injection, how big the turbo is, what boost, how even the fuel and air paths are between the cylinders.
Yes, merit in adjusting ignition, you are likely to be knock limited in the high load areas of the map, you might have too much or too little depending on the factors above. Here lies danger from knock. Even the 99/00 JECS was often deaf to knock when tuned, no idea how good 94 is, but it is an EJ engine so it will likely knock unpredictably and suffer damage when it does. I started with EJ engines and everything afterwards was easy, there are reasons for that.
Too little ignition and you can increase exhaust gas temps and damage exhaust valves, manifold, turbo, cats. Too much and knock as above.
You are finding the sweet spot between boost, fuel and ignition. There is more than one answer.
MAFless - generally if you have packaging, range or reversion problems with the MAF, then MAFless can be good. AIT can be in the charge pipe, some prefer outside the engine bay as they find that the real air temperatures are more often closer related to the environmental temperature if you have a good FMIC. Some "fast response" air temperature sensors can be so slow compared to a thermocouple that you can have 10% charge density errors using the wrong sensor in the wrong place. If environmental temperature outside the engine bay then you will avoid false lean after heatsoak. Again, opinions vary. Some say the best way to measure the real air temperature is to use a MAF and MAP to derive it.
Generally, MAFs are good if you can retain them and they are reliable.
Idle AFR 14.7. WOT, without knowing more details, many shoot for 11.5.
The details being things like octane, air & coolant temperature, cats, exhaust restrictions, condition of the engine, how much oil in the intake, how good the intercooler is, are you beasting it on track in Dubai until the tank runs dry or driving to the shops in Doncaster, what fuel type, any use of water or methanol injection, how big the turbo is, what boost, how even the fuel and air paths are between the cylinders.
Yes, merit in adjusting ignition, you are likely to be knock limited in the high load areas of the map, you might have too much or too little depending on the factors above. Here lies danger from knock. Even the 99/00 JECS was often deaf to knock when tuned, no idea how good 94 is, but it is an EJ engine so it will likely knock unpredictably and suffer damage when it does. I started with EJ engines and everything afterwards was easy, there are reasons for that.
Too little ignition and you can increase exhaust gas temps and damage exhaust valves, manifold, turbo, cats. Too much and knock as above.
You are finding the sweet spot between boost, fuel and ignition. There is more than one answer.
MAFless - generally if you have packaging, range or reversion problems with the MAF, then MAFless can be good. AIT can be in the charge pipe, some prefer outside the engine bay as they find that the real air temperatures are more often closer related to the environmental temperature if you have a good FMIC. Some "fast response" air temperature sensors can be so slow compared to a thermocouple that you can have 10% charge density errors using the wrong sensor in the wrong place. If environmental temperature outside the engine bay then you will avoid false lean after heatsoak. Again, opinions vary. Some say the best way to measure the real air temperature is to use a MAF and MAP to derive it.
Generally, MAFs are good if you can retain them and they are reliable.
20 February 2017, 10:25 PM
#3
Scooby Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great thanks for that
will have some time tomorrow to look at it and do some mapping.
at Idle afr is currently 10.4 which is mega rich
and when throttle off from.boost I get flames!
car is 440 injectors td05 top entry, fmic 3 inch hks turbo back system apexi induction with resonator delete walbro pump
looking to get map sorted before upping any boost
chris
will have some time tomorrow to look at it and do some mapping.
at Idle afr is currently 10.4 which is mega rich
and when throttle off from.boost I get flames!
car is 440 injectors td05 top entry, fmic 3 inch hks turbo back system apexi induction with resonator delete walbro pump
looking to get map sorted before upping any boost
chris
20 February 2017, 11:26 PM
#4
Good info there from John
I suspect your injector scaling is wrong if idle is 10.4 either that or lambda is knackered .
Tune in your injector scale to get close to fuel table and actual AFR on innovate wide and to start with
I suspect your injector scaling is wrong if idle is 10.4 either that or lambda is knackered .
Tune in your injector scale to get close to fuel table and actual AFR on innovate wide and to start with
21 February 2017, 09:39 AM
#5
are you sure you have the correct maf scaling/base map loaded on? 10.4 is waaay to rich - you want to be in the region of 14.7 at idle and light cruise to obtain decent fuel economy and low emissions. Are your AF corrections reflecting the ECU trying to reach 14.7? Also are you 100% sure the map settings are all correct - there are a few barometric compensations that would get messed up if the car though it was a few thousand feet either way.
On boost 11.5 might be a little lean for the older engines - 11.1 would be a little better for you. As above keep an ear out for knock, don't go blindly by what the ECU is picking up - det cans aren't a massive expense now (especially compared to a new engine!)
For boost, you'll be limited by the injector capacity even though you have the uprated map sensor, the TD05 should provide a solid 1.2bar for you.
Look for the larger injectors (550cc), a fuel pressure regulator to get the flow rate up plus an uprated intercooler (larger top mount or frontmount) along with deleting the resonator in the intake (you've the big box thing in your intake I think?) and then begin to increase boost.
Maf will be fine at this level but if you put the work in now to convert to mafless then adding a turbo and other shineys later on won't be as much work for you.
Oh and of course, go sit on the ESL training course is the best advice to getting started with it - very worthwhile doing I thought even though I already had some experience with them.
On boost 11.5 might be a little lean for the older engines - 11.1 would be a little better for you. As above keep an ear out for knock, don't go blindly by what the ECU is picking up - det cans aren't a massive expense now (especially compared to a new engine!)
For boost, you'll be limited by the injector capacity even though you have the uprated map sensor, the TD05 should provide a solid 1.2bar for you.
Look for the larger injectors (550cc), a fuel pressure regulator to get the flow rate up plus an uprated intercooler (larger top mount or frontmount) along with deleting the resonator in the intake (you've the big box thing in your intake I think?) and then begin to increase boost.
Maf will be fine at this level but if you put the work in now to convert to mafless then adding a turbo and other shineys later on won't be as much work for you.
Oh and of course, go sit on the ESL training course is the best advice to getting started with it - very worthwhile doing I thought even though I already had some experience with them.