FlipC

So read the thread from the finish dude with the videos of his car cold starting first crank at like -6 C etc. I have issues when ambient gets 20 C or less.
Just takes a bit to warm it up to start. Like hold for 15 seconds. Then attempt to start. Repeat.

I already understood about changing the IPW at cranking but this isn't possible with the ESL (97/98) so I have been pondering possible solutions.

First I tried higher AFR's at low load/rpm.
Didnt change anything.

So now I'm thinking keep the higher AFR and use less timing down low
to try to get more heat.

Thoughts and suggestions?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Maf or mafless ?

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

as above maf or mafless and what size injectors? Have you tried adjusting the injector scale value? You'll have to redo your fuel map again but you should be able to get where you need to be with it.


*edit*

just to check, when your not starting is it not enough fuel in there or too much fuel? If your not sure try adding a little easystart through one of the breather ports and see if that makes it spring to life, in which case you may need to richen the mixture by playing with the injector scale value.

SEDITION

iTrader: (1)

I can't see a link to the video or previous thread, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

There are a few topics on this on the Romraider forum:

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...E85+cold+start

FlipC

Sedition -
We cant do those things with ESL. We do not have cranking tables/IPW etc. Which is the correct way to fix issue it seems. Scroll down to harakka's post and watch his videos. He did it right - not the OP.

I am MAF.
My injectors are 560's and no scaling as 440 (stock) to 560 is a 27% difference.
Meant I didnt have to change any fueling going to E85.

Yes I tired just adding fuel. (since I cant IPW@ crank)
Easystart (if I could get it - in the USA) would passes the issue which is E85's physical temperature. Once car starts it will restart 1st try. Or if its a hot sunny day, it will start right up.

One thing I came across re reading the ESL manual is the "Load Limit (Engine Speed)"
setting. The mapping notes state "The load cap in the first two cells is important for defining the correct fueling at start up." But the only info I have found on "Load Limit" is on the Romraider site BUT all of it is based on a 2 diff Load Limit's Maps (Min/Max). I'm just going to play with the first 2 cells and see what happens.

If the above does nothing then I will pull fuel to see.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Before you try that id have a play with the MAF Calibration table.

Cranking voltage before the car starts is around the 1.2v area,increasing to around 1.7v when started.
So increase the scaling figure by say, 10% , you may have to start from 0.00 in the table adding 10% so the scaling increases all the way thru the table,otherwsie you will have a figure of say 1004 at 1.02 v then you may have a lower value in the enxt column, you dont want that.

i had similair lean issues , didnt cause starting issues but ran like crap at light throttle.

worth a try bud

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

no I know your fuel scaling is good now - but if you adjust the injector scale value it will end up having a knock on effect to the cold start IPW. Fiddling the maf scale will do the same job and if it's not too far out then the ECU will "correct" the intentionally wrong value once the o2 sensor comes online (around 10-30 seconds after start).

if the injector scale adjustment improves things (for starting at least) you might be able to get away with adjusting the target AFR in the rest of the range to get you back to where you want to be for AFR - though it will always be a trade off between hot/cold running with the limits on what tables you can edit.

You can't get easy start - but i'm sure you can get some kind of starting fluid spray which might help you in the meantime. You've added a little fuel but you may need to add a lot of fuel depending on how cold it is. The stock ECU logic is still in there so it will be adjusting IPW based on coolant temps (hence the suggestion to move the injector scale value to bump them all up a bit).

The load limit if I remember rightly is because sometimes on starting/low RPM the load value gets calculated at some mentally high number which can throw you off the end of the map. Putting the load limit number on there caps the value to something that you can work with.

boosted

Thermo switch on the coolant temp sensor to fudge the value until mildly warm?
Like this;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281790336437

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

i was thinking the same, but not sure if it would provide enough fuel even at it's coldest setting - would need to see the original tables if possible and see how far out they are. Easier to test by just fudging the injector scale and see if it helps.

boosted

Or use a proper ecu like a megasquirt!

FlipC

Car idles and runs pretty much spot on.
It is simplythe start that sometimes takes a few.

On the thermo switch -
Why when its already cold - both coolant and fuel? I am missing the thought process behind that one.

On the MAF - makes since being an indirect way to adjust the IPW tables.

The "Load Limit" didnt seem to change anything.

I am going to go with a leaner mixture with a bit less timing first.
Since it is a temperature issue this makes the most since in my head.

Busy next 3 days for me so unsure when I will get a chance to test out.

boosted

You will know if it is too rich it will fire up straight away and then bog and be stinking.
Sounds lean to me.
Thermo switch to switch coolant resistance to an extreme cold situation

FlipC

Well I got to try it once yesterday.
I had thought I already had it rich before as I could smell fuel. (E85 really doesn't stink)
But I went back and read up on E85's properties and it's stoich values. Going by a conversion table I had it right on stoich so I lowered it. 3 full points.
Seemed to start a bit better but since once it starts it will restart it is a going to be an over time process.