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So, heres my AFR table which is pretty close to real figures, my boost comes in around 2900 so seeing my AFR`s are around 13.5 to 13.2 before spool kicks in, is this too rich ?
harveys trick up pipe plus lightened flywheel... make sure injectors flowing well, and plugs correct rating, oh and a nice clean air filter to ! whoooosh
you could try going for 13.9/13.8 for the AFR target and see if you get any increase though you'll probably have to recheck your timing as well. You could probably net a few MPG as well if you increase those fuel targets in the lower load areas too. 1200-- 2400 at 12-19 load your already starting to get a little rich but you should be out of boost there still so no need for the extra fuel.
Bludgod, yeah, will check the timing after the changes, i set lower down the throttle load areas a bit rich to see if i would get better pops n bangs but alas, i dont,think the closed loop is still working in this range, so always meant to lean them up a bit .
Heres a fuel table i will try and see how i get on, probably won tnotice a difference but it looks a but better id say, as you say, out of boost range ive leaned it up compared to before, and at the 2400/2800 points ive leaned it to 13.9 / 13.8 and also the next table to 12.8 as i think 12.5 was a tad rich, was trying to get rid of knock but it wasnt an issue afterall
yeah, will give the table above a go and see how it goes, i suspect since i richened it up chasing that false trail, i have actually lost a few pops n bangs, when it was a tad leaner in the AFR table i got more pops, presuming the gases were hotter hence popping at low load
As i say, my closed loop controls alot below 2800 so i dont have alot fo control lol
When I got my car it had pops and bangs mapped in,the map was pretty bad tho tbh,done by a pro mind you.
What I had(I will post up the maps when I get chance to grab the laptop) is the Reinjection set to higher rpm(3200) the fuel map was lean(14.5-14.3) and the timing retarded right back to 25 from 3600rpm >> 6800rpm only in the lowest load range(5)
So it looks like to get the pops and bangs when coming off throttle is more about setting the injectors to open at higher rpm when off throttle and retarding timing in the low loads?
It did pop and bang well but like I say the car drove poor(was most of the map that were rubbish as well tbh)
Now got ALS if I need fireworks lol
yes decent pops to be had by enabling injector overrun and chopping around with the timing a bit. Different RPM points respond better to more or less fuel and more or less timing so it can take a bit of work to get it sounding how you want. Try combinations of almost 0 degrees and anywhere from -10 to +10 timing and a little bit richer - that way when you touch the pedal at those lower load points you'll get a good shot of extra fuel with the neutral/negative timing which should be a satisfying plop.
rig that fuel table looks good to me, do you need the 10's tho (bottom right section) as that seems like a lot of fuel. You might get better results with low/mid 11's and see if you have to work back the timing a little. The 50-60 load range at low RPM, i'd be inclined to richen that area in line with the rest of the high load targets, you'll never hit them but just in the off chance your climbing a super hill in low gear and somehow magically hit them you want to have the same fuel you'd normally run on boost.
Cheers for the info guys, Bludgod, my AFR meter is pretty acurate and matches my AFR table but for some reason, it loses its acuracy higher up the range, From around 4400 and load points 51 onwards, its about 0.4 Out, so the AFR meter at full chat reads about 11.4 to 11.2 even tho the table reads intot he 10`s and at full full chat its about 0.9 out at 6000 rpm but i hardly hit that lol
I will richen the 50-60 load points at low load (800, 1200 and 1600 cells ? ) then bud and leave the 2000 and 2400 cells leaner to help spool up temps
cheers
Last edited by The Rig; 18 January 2016 at 10:15 PM.
if your MAF based then your maf scaling is out then, if your mafless then the VE table should be viewed in RAW mode (two arrows spinning around each other) as the targets aren't accurate anymore due to VE changing at higher loads. So long as the AFR is reading true then that's what matters. Have you checked your injector duty just to make sure your not running out of room?
Unfortunately no injector duty in the ESL software as yet
Andy said he was working on that a while ago but not heard how he's getting on with that yet.
Would be interested to know about setting the VE table to get my fuel map closer to the AFR gauge,it's a fair bit out in places,as I'm mafless I'm not sure how to scale? I will have a look in raw view and have a little play to see if I can get things lining up a bit closer.
Last edited by ossett2k2; 18 January 2016 at 10:53 PM.
yeh for a MAF based system you need to calculate AFR difference at each MAFv point on your scale. On a live map like ESL this will take you like 30 mins
set your AFR target to something handy like 10.9 across the whole boost portion. This leaves you room for being richer/leaner without messing you up too much go forth and log wideband readings and MAF value. Do a few wot runs (like 10 or so) to get some good average data. Bung it all into excel and you can see easily any points that are not 10.9 AFR. Sort them by MAF reading and you should be hopefully seeing a trend. points that are lean need increased maf values, points that are rich need decreased maf values. If you find that your MAF value can't be increased any then your maf is maxed out, hooray for you and your mega airflow - now go consider switching to mafless
For your maffless system, there doesn't look to be a VE table as such - just the fuel map in raw mode so jolly on through in raw mode with the same process but log MAP instead of MAF value. Process is the same but you'll have more cells to work on. Again live edits make this a gift so no excuses!
ossett with you being speed density the fuel table won't line up anyway, just leave it in raw mode and make it work for you. You'll have to log IAT as well and try and get your adjustments all done at the same temps - might be worth zeroing the comp table a little until your AFR's are pretty close, then wait for outside temps to change (wait until night time or middle of the day) and then adjust the IAT comp table until your back on target.
Ah I see what you're saying. Unfortunately the mapper made a ***** of the IAT sensor and totally wired it up wrong plus did no work at all on the compensation tables,looks like he just slung it on any old way to make some quick cash and blag the owner into thinking it was working as it should!?!?!?
I've not had a chance to re-wire it so currently running maffless with no IAT
Yeh I try not to give it too much stick atm until everything is sorted,of corse just can't help myself sometimes tho
Will be keeping an eye on the wb and it's a pretty rich map on load by the looks of things(And looking at the wb),again I need to look at it properly when everything is set up correctly.
Last edited by ossett2k2; 19 January 2016 at 01:28 PM.
I prefer to have the advance increasing steadily with load, some of the bugs and blobs can be a little funny about it so sometimes you'll get knock even though it's not there (if you move the timing from KCA to base or vice versa). Might be worth shifting some of that timing around between base and advance to smooth out the advance table.
Upside is it makes the base table easier to look at as you can see easily the ignition advancing as RPM/load increases - or if it doesn't then you can see an area for improvement. I guess not so useful to have as ESL already shows you the total timing but it could still be worth trying to see if it helps.
so 17, 18, 19 degrees roughly at 1.35 bar? The reason I ask is that my car has been mapped on pump fuel to peak 1.6 bar and hold 1.4, timing is 14,15,16,17 as revs climb. I filled up with 20% meth mix last night and adjusted fueling to bring AFR back into spec. I added 5 degrees timing onto the whole boost map, so now have 19 degrees at 1.6 bar, advancing to 22 at the redline. No det heard.
Cant say it feels any quicker though, but it could be quicker?
do some logs with just:
Engine Speed
Vehicle Speed
Throttle Angle %
Boost/Wideband
Reducing the parameters gives a much faster update rate for logging and this is needed for a good smooth dyno chart.
Take a 3rd or 4th gear pull and drop it into virtual dyno to compare results. Sometimes it's hard to feel an extra 5hp here or there or if you've smoothed things out then it can be deceiving to the butt dyno. Virtual dyno is reasonably accurate but best to use it for before/after comparisons in future so you can see how your doing.
if your not detting then what's your AFR at the moment, maybe try leaning out a little more or add another degree or two in timing and see what that gives you peak.
this will work with logs from ESL too if others want to tinker, you may need to work out the right weight/wheel size values for a classic tho but that's no big deal.
that's a good mix, maybe try for more timing first then. What's the EGT's looking like? You can use the front o2 sensor current/resistance to take a rough stab at it. When the current drops to zero then resistance gives you a rough idea:
25-24 ohms around 810/830 c
23-22 ohms around 830/840 c
20-19 ohms around 850-860 c
So if your still on the 22-27 range you could go a little leaner. I wouldn't go under the 22 unless your only doing small bursts, better to keep above 22 and keep it safe.
you could give it a try, the front o2 is usually closer to the ports and most people remove the uppipe EGT probe as it's only there to monitor the cat. Once the cat is out your just waiting for it to try and make sweet kisses to your turbo when it lets go.
15 January 2016, 06:25 PM
Increasing spool ?
