GaryCat

I know how and why this is done, but I just can't seem to do it.

Is it the position of the pedals in my 03 WRX or because of my size 11 feet or what?

Any tips on technique or how to learn the right way would be most appreciated.

Cheers
Gary.

AvalancheS8

The name heel-and-toeing is perhaps overly restictive, I find I can only comfortably manage to outside-of-the-foot-near-the heel-and-toe. Try pointing your foot in and rolling it to use the outside of it on the throttle while keeping the top of the brake under the ***** of your toes.

ex-webby

Good advice from Avalanche

the term "heel & toe" comes from when the throttle used to be on the left and brake on the right, when you actually used your heel and toe, now it's a ball of foot, and side of foot... just not as catchy!

Cheers

Simon

Fatman

I couldn't do it at all before fitting the STi pedals (with extension on LHS of throttle). I brake with the LHS of my foot and roll my foot on the right edge of the brake pedal -- catching the throttle pedal extension with the RHS of the foot.

David_Wallis

The only way I can manage to do it is by turning my leg / foot and using the bottom of my size 11 to blip the throttle.. was very easy to do in my 106...

Hardest part I found was keeping consistent pressure on the brake pedal..

David

AvalancheS8

You're braking too soon then !! If you brake later and harder it's easier to keep the pressure consistent while you blip the throttle.

vindaloo

Keeping the brake pressure constant(ish) is one of those things that comes with practice. It's a pain to get right on modern cars where you only have to wiggle your toes to get an emergency stop. I have the STi pedals and I can just catch the throttle with the outside of my shoe.

Another thing you can do rather than just blipping the throttle is to hold it down a bit as you approach a corner, whilst braking. If you get it right, you don't get such a transition from braking, off throttle into the corner, followed by a jolt and then on power, out of the corner.

Note: Needs care as you don't want to hit too much boost as your approaching the trees before the bend . I never have this problem in the AX but then it hasn't even got any power to speak of, let alone boost.

Another note: Watch out for diesel spills when filling up if you've got STi or similar pedals. I had a big moment leaving my local Shell garage because of this. Not a lot of grip on the pedals at all. I didn't know if I was braking, de-clutching or what.

Jeremy.

David_Wallis

yeah, but I dont want to be late on the brakes whilst pissing about on my 'private road'

David

AvalancheS8

Agreed, I was really just pulling your leg . Cars that have excessively servoed brakes are just hard to do heel and toe smoothly, practise is the key.

prana

one of the big reasons I decided to buy the WRX because it was extremely easy to heal-toe. Pedal position and brake pressure is perfect for me size 8 foot.

Judge

Can somebody please explain the benefits of heel-toeing,I do lots of track days and would not know how or why to do it!!??

(Yes I'm an idiot!)

Mcbrun555

IIRC Heel and Toe was needed with gearboxes without synchromesh, as well as double de clutching (off throttle, on brake, disengage clutch, out of gear, engage clutch, blip throttle, disengage clutch, place in gear and engage clutch)

The benefits are
1) Less strain on the transmission, as there is no lurch as the revs rise when the clutch is engaged
2) Balances car, as when you are already braking the car hard, then there is extra resistance as the clutch engages could lock the wheels (non-ABS).
3) More comfortable for passengers (less lurching backwards are forwards)
4) Sounds pretty dam cool!

The "perfect downshifts" that the magazines keep praising the new semi-automatic gearboxes for, are electronic Heal and Toe.

JamieMiller

I never really saw any need for it until a friend of mine who races suggested I try it a few years ago. Started to practice it and now it more or less comes naturally when driving quickly, although still not as good as my mate at it. I find it helps keep things smooth especially on the track. Braking into the hairpin at KH through the gears I find it a must.

Another question I'd like to put to people, how many people left foot brake as well? I do it quite often, probably too often judging by the way I go through pads and discs.

P.S. I was at the Hot Marques day at the end of Feb at KH. Must try and get back their sometime. Would love to teach you but I find I'm a crap at teaching people.

prana

It doesnt so much affect FWD or AWD cars too much, although at the limit, it will. It does however affect RWD cars a lot.

If under late braking and already in turn-in where you'd downshift, if you suddenly let the clutch out, your driving wheels will act like a giant brake. So what happens when you turn the corner and lock up your rear wheels ? Now imagine that at the limit of traction where a slight imbalance can end you up on a wall, and perfect traction could take half a second of each lap ? That is a huge advantage.

But delucthing drift is fun

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

I too find that it is really hard in the WRX, but really easy in the Clio...
What are these STI pedal extensions that FatMan keeps talking about?

*Sonic*

These are the Sti Pedals



I have found with them now, that my trainers (and shoes sometimes) keep catching on the footrest & clutch, and brake & accelerator, time to get some thinner shoes for driving

S

tmo

Left foot braking works a treat

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

arrh heal & toe

got it down to a fine art now even on my little nova rally car

trouble is, all that blipping im sure my mpg is worse

next is mastering the dreaded LEFT FOOT BRAKING, now thats gonna take a bit more time

Give it a go if you aint already (make sure your seatbelt is secure on your 1st time)

I remember last year on the WRC rally coverage (Eurosport i think) they had a great shot of Petter's feet while on stage.... Talk about 'dancing' on the peddles

Have fun Steve

tmo

Try driving home and thinking, I will only brake with my left foot !! works after a while

Graz

It's easier if you don't have a clutch to worry about

prana

Left Foot Braking, first time I did it, I nealy went through the windscreen.

I still find it hard to quickly heal-toe then shuffle clutch to brake to make it useful enough quick enough, it's all in the speed. Clutch toe-brake heal-blip shift-down declutch then feather brakes with left ... argghhh!!! How do you rally drivers to it ? Whats the secret ?

JamieMiller

[QUOTE=prana]Left Foot Braking, first time I did it, I nealy went through the windscreen.

All practice. Ideally you want somewhere private. I taught myself to left foot brake when I was 17 in my Nova (young hooligan) in a big empty car park late at night. Never really sussed it until I got my Scoob though. When I'm heel and toeing down the gears approaching a bend then feathering the left foot on the brake through a bend, passengers watching my feet seem to be amazed by it . But as I say it all comes with practice and having mates who drive rally cars who show you the ropes.

P.S I didn't say I was brilliant at it, just do it for my own benefit really .

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Heel and Toe - What do people think is the optimum time to blip the throttle.

Is it a long blip, as it were, for the whole time you are braking. Coming off the brakes and the thottle together at the same time? Then getting the car balanced up for entry into the bend etc etc.

Or do people prefer a shot blip during the braking process, and if so do you tend to do it towards the end of braking?

What are your thoughts
thanks
Steve

prana

Best time to blip the throttle is at the time of downshift, just before when you are about to throttle out of the corner, as the reason to blip is to be able to throttle out as soon without wasting time downshifting.

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

also 1 of the main reasons for keeping the revs up (blipping) on change down is to eliminate/reduce engine braking + above p)

GaryCat

...and to keep the engine within it's power band in the lower gear. The ideal time to blip the throttle is when you dip the clutch isn't it???

Mcbrun555

Simply engine revs with speed of car when the clutch is engaged, the time to do it is just before you engage the lower gear.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

thanks for the replies

So a short blip when the clutch is engaged but towards the end of the clutch engagement as it were, as you are just about to engage the lower gear.

And all of this is happening right at the tail end of the braking process. So would probably finish braking half a second or second later after having bliped the throttle.

Is this an acurate description do you think?

Steve

prana

quite.