Cosie Convert

Found this on i-club thread. £ 450.00 Sounds too good to be true !






List 675 USD less 10% discount = approx £450 + shipping

It even includes the up-pipe, I was about to spend £ 146 on that alone May re-consider now

More details at www.generationplastics.com

i-club thread giving pro's and cons. Difficulty fitting to bug eye apparently ?
www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179991

[Edited by Cosie Convert - 5/3/2002 11:22:23 AM]

Cosie Convert

You're correct Mark, I picked that photo from the thread but it differs from the 'Generationplastics' pic

Proper pic -



Looks even better !!

[Edited by Cosie Convert - 5/3/2002 12:38:13 PM]

carl

The first pic is definitely unequal length headers. The contorted stuff in the second pic suggests they might be equal length.

Second pic also looks like the one here. No idea of the price of that though.

[Edited by carl - 5/3/2002 12:50:54 PM]

DJNormski

For those who cannot be arsed to paste the link...

I am still not convinced on the equal length runner front! Longer runners will consume more exhaust energy so reducing the turbochargers efficiency therefore induce more lag.

However, longer / separate runners should in theory have a ramming effect dependant upon their length/diameter and the Scoobs cam phasing (this would be different between UK Vs WRX Vs STi cams, as I believe they have different lift, duration and IVO/IVC & EVO/EVC timing).


IMHO, for a much improved bottom end torque (low thermal inertia/lowest energy consumption) and marginal increase in mid and top end (better matching of ports/better flow), it would seem that one should get the OEM headers ported and alleviate any restrictions in the OEM sections of the manifold/headers and uppipe. Better still, fabricate new headers and integral uppipe based upon the OEM original pipe routing and ensure good porting/tighter tolerance and try not to induce a Vena Contracta condition.

In theory, the long equal length runners should improve bottom end torque due to long runners (also good for low rpm ramming on a naturally aspirated engine). I cannot help thinking that the energy that would be consumed within this mangle of runners would outweigh the initial tuning benefit and may in fact cause a potential loss in bottom end torque/spool up. However once turbo up and spinning they would come on song and improved torque benefit should be visible at a certain rpm/cam timing but then tail off as they became out off song/out of tune Vs rpm. Equal length runners obviously improve the volumetric efficiency at these points so therefore flowing more air requiring more fuel to compensate.

Backpressure.......NOT GOOD! Biggest that can be packaged post Turbo the better. Gas velocity speed principle does not apply post turbo. Does any body wish to swap their complete 3" system with my tiddly little complete 2.5" system
All this b@ll@x about backpressure is good for turbo's...pah! Give the turbo something to work against...pah! If the poor thing doesn't have enough to do already...

Horses for courses !

Jacko.

[Edited by DJNormski - 5/3/2002 3:26:59 PM]

V5-APS

iTrader: (1)

That second picture looks very much like the current Power Engineering item, complete with expansion straps!

[Edited by V5-APS - 5/3/2002 11:08:09 PM]

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

up-pipes are 85quid!

mutant_matt

Christian,

Which one? Scoobysport ones are £125 + VAT

Matt

Caronte

PE is 95 +VAT

R19KET

Andy,

I've not gone through the whole i-club thread, but this pic' is very different to that on the linked site.

These look like a copy of the HKS headers, but without the centre slip joint. Knowing just how much the headers expand over this length, I'd be very concerned that they've not slipped the pipes.

Mark.

Cosie Convert

I was going for the s/sport uppipe at 125+v £146 but PE sound a better price, assuming equal performance. Christian, where are the £85 pipes ??

Homer Simpson

I dare say Mr.R doesn't have to pay VAT!!

SecretAgentMan

...damn...this looks really interesting...

/J

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

And on the reccomendation of a certain link supplier and mapper, equal length manifolds are a big waste of money.

john banks

And someone else says they get over 25lbft IIRC from one (Stephen Done). Very difficult isn't it? I am as much a sucker for the placebo effect as anyone, damn I wash the car and I swear it adds a few horses

The top picture does look anything but equal length.

DJNormski

There has been some discussion on this on other threads as you guy's know. Try reading this link below if interested in opinions/findings...

http://bbs.22b.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000133.html

Jacko...

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

Ant that same person told me he lost in the region of 80bhp, back to back testing with the equal length manifolds, and despite a full attempt to remap to regain any power, was unsuccessful. If I was still interested, he would sell me those same manifolds at greatly reduced cost, but would prefer them to remain on the shelf as he did not regard them as a performance item, and would not like to see anyone else wasting their money. Not saying all manifolds are bad, just the ones he tried i think??
Any real high power turbo cars, be it old F1, WRC ( although not high power, do have a lot of torque ), Rallycross etc etc, do use tubular manifolds, although saying that im sure they dont all drive to well around town. Mid range is the most important are to consider. Until I can see more evidence of real back to back testing, I will just stick to the cast manifolds.

dazz1

We're in the process of finalizing the possible groupbuy for these headers in the States.
One member from the I-club is getting the fine details straighten out. The vendor is doing some testing to find out if this is a true play and pray (opps, I meant plug & Play) systems. Once that is confirmed, we'll be able to start the GB.
Is there any dyno results of a aftermarket header install on the Scooby?

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

roger clarke motorsport, ask for Simon, and say I sent ya

R19KET

I think the reference to a "certain" tuners experiences, with one particular make of headers, that were found to be leaking very badly from the slip joints, should be used in context.

I changed from ported stock headers, to "unequal" length tubular, and had to add 25% more fuel. No other parts were changed at the time. My fueling was correct.

The results were DRAMATIC.

Pat also changed to tubular, and found he also needed to add in the region of 25% more fuel.

It must be taken into account that both these cars run/ran big hybrid turbo's, and needed remapping before the full benifits were seen.

Personally, I didn't notice any losses, or gains low down, but from 4000rpm the car was remarkable. I can only describe the difference, to being like when you first drive a Scoob after a "normal" car, and put your foot down........well that feeling of "Wow, **** me" !!!!!!! returned. Pat and I just looked at each other in amazement. My car wasn't slow before, I'd just got used to it.

Mark.

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

R19KET> did u and pat use hks ones?

R19KET

Christian,

No, neither Pat nore I use the HKS, not because they aren't any good, they are.

I originally had a set of early MRT headers (they've changed now) but I've changed to some custom made ones. Pat also uses a custom set, but a different design to mine.

Mark.