ECUTEK - why use anything else?
30 April 2002, 12:55 PM
#1
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I have just had my first experience of OEM ECU modification by EcuTek. It is on a Forester MY00 S Turbo ECU (first one they have tackled) and the results are excellent.
Mr. Done and co. have certainly done a huge amount of work understanding how these ECU's work and written two very impressive software applications to 1) read the dynamic engine data coming into the ECU (Delta Dash) and 2) to modify the code and re-map the ECU (One Scoobynet regular is about to trial this in the public domain). Due to the huge range of modifications possible, (to all ECU parameters, boost, timing, fueling rev. limit etc.etc.) I cannot see the need to use an after market ECU.
The Ecutek team are very accomodating and are very knowledgable on Subaru Turbo engine modifications.
This is just Part 1 of the Forester modifications, Part 2 is to follow shortly, I will let you all know the outcome.
Mr. Done and co. have certainly done a huge amount of work understanding how these ECU's work and written two very impressive software applications to 1) read the dynamic engine data coming into the ECU (Delta Dash) and 2) to modify the code and re-map the ECU (One Scoobynet regular is about to trial this in the public domain). Due to the huge range of modifications possible, (to all ECU parameters, boost, timing, fueling rev. limit etc.etc.) I cannot see the need to use an after market ECU.
The Ecutek team are very accomodating and are very knowledgable on Subaru Turbo engine modifications.
This is just Part 1 of the Forester modifications, Part 2 is to follow shortly, I will let you all know the outcome.
30 April 2002, 01:57 PM
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The original ECU is remapped through the diagnostic port. Don't even have to lift the carpet or use a screwdriver 
and it is such a superior solution to this piggyback stuff I have been building recently.
www.ecutek.co.uk
[Edited by john banks - 4/30/2002 1:58:34 PM]
and it is such a superior solution to this piggyback stuff I have been building recently.www.ecutek.co.uk
[Edited by john banks - 4/30/2002 1:58:34 PM]
30 April 2002, 05:41 PM
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John is correct. Basically you retain your original ECU and all of it's associated functionality, fuel cut, engine check, idle stabilisation, immobilizer, etc.. It is just re-programmed to your settings if you desire or to a standard improved map. It's the best way to do it and no one can detect the change (apart from Ecutek) and of course the performance improvement!
No one else (other than Subaru) can do this to best of my knowledge.
No one else (other than Subaru) can do this to best of my knowledge.
30 April 2002, 06:05 PM
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Off to Ecutek and Power Engineerings rolling road for Part 2 on Friday. This is a special, custom map for the Forester ECU.
Should be catching the Impreza's up soon!
Should be catching the Impreza's up soon!
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30 April 2002, 08:05 PM
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Hi,
Can Ecutek reprogram STi7 ECU ? is the safest cheapest ??
Can TEK3 fit an STi7 ?
APEXI some thing or Unichip ?
whats the cost's? up? downs? please not too technical
I don't wish to ever play with setting
just turn the key and go
PPP is the way to go as long as it comes out before my warrenty ends
Can Ecutek reprogram STi7 ECU ? is the safest cheapest ??
Can TEK3 fit an STi7 ?
APEXI some thing or Unichip ?
whats the cost's? up? downs? please not too technical
I don't wish to ever play with setting
just turn the key and go PPP is the way to go as long as it comes out before my warrenty ends
30 April 2002, 08:30 PM
#14
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Not for the STi 7 yet.
Safety and results will always be related to the map and the mapper rather more than the device used.
Of course the Tek 3 will cost more - more time required, only setup at PE on their dyno at present, VAT required etc etc.
I am getting a Tek 3 with a new turbo in a few weeks and will of course update y'all on results.
Prior to this I will be running a standard ECU with a Dawes and fuel cut lifter with the new turbo. I will have before and after Delta Dash logs, don't know about dyno runs.
I expect there will be favourable improvements at the same boost because of timing and fuelling improvements. At present my car is overly rich and the ignition considerably more retarded than it needs to be.
I have messed about with various bolt ons over the last several months to try and bend fuelling/timing/boost to my requirements with varying success. Some of the boost devices I have discussed on here, the ones for timing and fuelling I have not as they are potentially very dangerous indeed and I have not logged them fully.
Basically I dropped the MAF voltage by 5-10% and the car picked up substantially better over 3000 RPM - it felt a bit slower below. I was not happy to do any more at the time as I could not log timing, but I believe timing will have advanced, certainly the fuelling was leaner but still over 9% CO - to me this is a lot safer than running a small turbo well beyond what it can run. I ran -5% MAF at Knockhill at 2 PSI less than I usually run on the road and it was just as quick but without the silly intake temps. On the road I am back to higher boost but no MAF mod because of the loss below 3000RPM - it is probably slightly (but not dangerously) lean.
Basically I am fed up of trying to piggyback to the ECU and have a poor man's very crude remap and the results of modifying the MAF sensor across the range show just how you need to be able to do it properly by RPM and load, hence why I am going for a Tek 3. To adjust timing properly you would need a proper RPM/load map and adjust the cam position sensor signal. One error in this, on bad solder joint and you fire at completely the wrong time. With boost mods it is much more forgiving until you mess with fuel cut and then you need to be certain what is going on.
Safety and results will always be related to the map and the mapper rather more than the device used.
Of course the Tek 3 will cost more - more time required, only setup at PE on their dyno at present, VAT required etc etc.
I am getting a Tek 3 with a new turbo in a few weeks and will of course update y'all on results.
Prior to this I will be running a standard ECU with a Dawes and fuel cut lifter with the new turbo. I will have before and after Delta Dash logs, don't know about dyno runs.
I expect there will be favourable improvements at the same boost because of timing and fuelling improvements. At present my car is overly rich and the ignition considerably more retarded than it needs to be.
I have messed about with various bolt ons over the last several months to try and bend fuelling/timing/boost to my requirements with varying success. Some of the boost devices I have discussed on here, the ones for timing and fuelling I have not as they are potentially very dangerous indeed and I have not logged them fully.
Basically I dropped the MAF voltage by 5-10% and the car picked up substantially better over 3000 RPM - it felt a bit slower below. I was not happy to do any more at the time as I could not log timing, but I believe timing will have advanced, certainly the fuelling was leaner but still over 9% CO - to me this is a lot safer than running a small turbo well beyond what it can run. I ran -5% MAF at Knockhill at 2 PSI less than I usually run on the road and it was just as quick but without the silly intake temps. On the road I am back to higher boost but no MAF mod because of the loss below 3000RPM - it is probably slightly (but not dangerously) lean.
Basically I am fed up of trying to piggyback to the ECU and have a poor man's very crude remap and the results of modifying the MAF sensor across the range show just how you need to be able to do it properly by RPM and load, hence why I am going for a Tek 3. To adjust timing properly you would need a proper RPM/load map and adjust the cam position sensor signal. One error in this, on bad solder joint and you fire at completely the wrong time. With boost mods it is much more forgiving until you mess with fuel cut and then you need to be certain what is going on.
30 April 2002, 08:41 PM
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John,
Have you decided on what turbo yet? Make sure you post the Delta Dash logs on here before the Tek 3 and after. I may toss out all my gear and follow in your foot steps. Especially if it's safer.
Cheers,
Wrexy.
Have you decided on what turbo yet? Make sure you post the Delta Dash logs on here before the Tek 3 and after. I may toss out all my gear and follow in your foot steps. Especially if it's safer.
Cheers,
Wrexy.
30 April 2002, 08:44 PM
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I'll release full details on the turbo when I can WREXY.
I want it to be able to run cooler and safer even on track, but not have clutch slipping gearbox eating insurance unfriendly power. So I will very possibly be running less boost on a bigger turbo, but hopefully a lot more advance and put lots of cool air in.
I want it to be able to run cooler and safer even on track, but not have clutch slipping gearbox eating insurance unfriendly power. So I will very possibly be running less boost on a bigger turbo, but hopefully a lot more advance and put lots of cool air in.
30 April 2002, 08:46 PM
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Stephen has been working hard on DeltaDash for the MY02 US guys I believe from their threads. I'm sure they have some nice new age ECU solutions cooking
30 April 2002, 08:57 PM
#21
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So what do we think about the reliability and safety of the Tek2 map then? I know some PE modded cars had some fairly well publicised deaths a while ago; I assume that EcuTek's work is totally seperate to anything that PE have produced in the past?
I'm not looking to be controversial but would like to know what people think before I spend my money. I would be looking to run one with a lambda and knock link as well as the usual uprated intercooler pipework anyway.
I'm not looking to be controversial but would like to know what people think before I spend my money. I would be looking to run one with a lambda and knock link as well as the usual uprated intercooler pipework anyway.
30 April 2002, 09:07 PM
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Simon,
One difference is that before, with the previous PE kits the customer could not check what was going on with his engine, sensors, temps ,etc, unless he had a lambda, knocklink etc. Now with the Delta Dash, that is if you purchase one, you can keep your eye on everything and catch a fault before it becomes expensive. So if you were to get a Tek 2 for example and you purchased the Delta Dash too, you would be able to monitor and catch a situation, like I did with a failing MAF. I still have a stock ECU.
So far no problems with the Ecu Tek ECUs, from what I've read here.
Cheers,
Wrexy.
[Edited by WREXY - 4/30/2002 9:08:53 PM]
One difference is that before, with the previous PE kits the customer could not check what was going on with his engine, sensors, temps ,etc, unless he had a lambda, knocklink etc. Now with the Delta Dash, that is if you purchase one, you can keep your eye on everything and catch a fault before it becomes expensive. So if you were to get a Tek 2 for example and you purchased the Delta Dash too, you would be able to monitor and catch a situation, like I did with a failing MAF. I still have a stock ECU.
So far no problems with the Ecu Tek ECUs, from what I've read here.
Cheers,
Wrexy.
[Edited by WREXY - 4/30/2002 9:08:53 PM]
30 April 2002, 09:21 PM
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Reliability from any mod is a very difficult question to answer. There are clear disagreements on causes of MAF failure, big end bearing failure to name only two. Theories will abound, and everyone will have their favourite one. The only way to completely avoid risk is to run a warranted car with factory approved modifications only. Otherwise a MAF or big end or any other failure could happen at any time, but more importantly you pay for it. Unless you did a field trial for a total of millions of miles for several years across many cars you would struggle to show a statistically significant difference in failure rates between modifications, and even then the controls would be suspect. So you are left with opinion.
This is my opinion: I like the Ecutek remaps because they use the original ECU with its arguably better knock correction and tolerance of lower octane than many aftermarket ECUs. They retain a low octane map and have quite a lot of ability to adjust, as well as high resolution maps and a huge amount of R&D behind them as would be expected of an OEM ECU. They still use the MAF sensor with all its associated cons AND pros. They are well priced when you consider a Tek 2 is now cheaper than a Superchip, and many times safer for multiple reasons.
I don't believe a Dawes is unsafe if set correctly. But an Ecutek map has a heck of a lot more safety features behind it - it can lower the boost in response to knock or a check engine condition. It can taper boost at high RPM. It can log a massive amount of information very quickly.
At the end of the day it is the map that goes in it. Notably Stephen is getting similar airflow to myself with more advance, but using considerably less boost to achieve it, and netting considerably more power and torque. I wonder whose in-cylinder temps are lower and whose turbo would last longest?
There is a background rate of engine failure on unmodded and modded cars. With incomplete information you need to look into it and find out for yourself what you perceive the risk/benefit to be. If a failure occurs on a remapped car, causation is difficult to establish. And then the opinions come out again. Everyone has one me included
[Edited by john banks - 4/30/2002 9:27:25 PM]
This is my opinion: I like the Ecutek remaps because they use the original ECU with its arguably better knock correction and tolerance of lower octane than many aftermarket ECUs. They retain a low octane map and have quite a lot of ability to adjust, as well as high resolution maps and a huge amount of R&D behind them as would be expected of an OEM ECU. They still use the MAF sensor with all its associated cons AND pros. They are well priced when you consider a Tek 2 is now cheaper than a Superchip, and many times safer for multiple reasons.
I don't believe a Dawes is unsafe if set correctly. But an Ecutek map has a heck of a lot more safety features behind it - it can lower the boost in response to knock or a check engine condition. It can taper boost at high RPM. It can log a massive amount of information very quickly.
At the end of the day it is the map that goes in it. Notably Stephen is getting similar airflow to myself with more advance, but using considerably less boost to achieve it, and netting considerably more power and torque. I wonder whose in-cylinder temps are lower and whose turbo would last longest?
There is a background rate of engine failure on unmodded and modded cars. With incomplete information you need to look into it and find out for yourself what you perceive the risk/benefit to be. If a failure occurs on a remapped car, causation is difficult to establish. And then the opinions come out again. Everyone has one me included
[Edited by john banks - 4/30/2002 9:27:25 PM]
30 April 2002, 09:43 PM
#24
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I concur with John. Ecutek maps are also deliberatly on the conservative side (boost, fuel, ignition etc.) so one still has a high margin for error, albeit less than OEM in some cases. (mod's permitting)
They (Ecutek) and Stephen in particular appear to have gone to great lengths to make a unique, productive and reliable product.
Not that I am a fan or anything!!
I will let you know after the next stage of the re-mapping process.
They (Ecutek) and Stephen in particular appear to have gone to great lengths to make a unique, productive and reliable product.
Not that I am a fan or anything!!
I will let you know after the next stage of the re-mapping process.
30 April 2002, 11:19 PM
#27
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Thanks for the replies guys. I agree that there will always be a slight risk whenever you start mucking about with the car and move away from the manufacturers set up. Hopefully any problems that may arise will be highlighted through this board although I do get the feeling that the EcuTek remapped ECUs will probably be/are a relatively safe mod given, as you say, that they are based on the OEM ECU with it's built in correction and safety factors.
PS. Any chance one of you chaps could have a go at answering my completely unrelated dump valve question here please?: http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=91747
PS. Any chance one of you chaps could have a go at answering my completely unrelated dump valve question here please?: http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=91747
01 May 2002, 03:28 PM
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Just had a look at the Power Engineering website - a proper site it is too!
Am I stuffed to get a mapped ECU on my STi V then? Ecutek seems to save a good few hundred quid compared to a long yearned for Link, but it won't suit an STi V I read?
Are there solutions - it runs so rich and has had a few mods, so it's about time i did it!
D
Am I stuffed to get a mapped ECU on my STi V then? Ecutek seems to save a good few hundred quid compared to a long yearned for Link, but it won't suit an STi V I read?
Are there solutions - it runs so rich and has had a few mods, so it's about time i did it!
D
