Razor2001

Hi guys and gals,

Can someone who has tried this tell me if it works, how much to use in a JPN spec STI MY2001 per fill up to achieve 100 RON on 93 octane gas, and how should it be handled etc ???

I have read many things on it on the web, some positive, some negative...need some experienced answers please.

Thanks for the help
Ray

Razor2001

Help me out guys, my JPN spec STI MY2001 arrives next week and I don't want to kill the engine

Dave T-S

IIRC toluene was used as a petrol additive, along with benzene, but I believe they are both banned now.

It's one of the ingredients of TNT (tri nitro toluene)

David_Wallis

its also present in most paint thinners along with xylene... burns well...

David

Trucker Ted

Why not try high octane race fuel?(www.76lubricants.co.uk)This company sells fuel up to about 120 RON.

If i remember a magazine tried this stuff in different cars and got power gains of about 10 bhp.Its's expensive for every day use as it costs about £3 per litre.

robman

p*sses water out the exhaust presumably :-)

EvoRSX

To make a 100 octane rating fuel from toluene (which is about 120 RON) and 93 RON octane it is a simple ratio calculation.

If you add 26% toluene @ 120RON to 74% petrol @ 93RON you will get 100RON fuel.

It should be handled with the same precautions you use for handling petrol.

Toluene is added into most fuels to improve the octane rating and also increase the power output of the fuel as it has a higher power output / litre than standard petrol.

Andy

P.S. Don't blame me if it all goes horribly wrong though. I'm just doing the calculations for you.

b5m

Due to our poor fuel at altitude in South Africa us Subaru owners use an additive. Since NF, Millers etc is hard(read impossible) to get we use our own mixtures. Currently the mixture we use is 25% Toulene 25% Xyelene and 50% Ethanol I think. You must not run at more than 10% concentration since it will eat the rubber in your fuel pipes. Now we add this to 93RON to give about 95.5RON. Supposedly you need to be careful since this mixture cant be added to the 95RON we sometimes get since the aromatic concentration is too high. I am no chemist but this is our experiences with our fuel.

ssubaru

Thanks boost II for useing the word carcinogenic was trying to remember that word when typeing last message,but i do agree with daveT-S that both substances are now banned because when exposed to bare skin both are carcinogenic or so i was told
don

BugEyed

Be VERY careful if using toluene in your engine. We used it in the late 80's F1 engines and it achieved its objectives - we got more power due to greater density and knock resistance than other fuels. However, it ate the **** out of the engine auxilaries. We had to replace all of the rubber in the fuel system with a special form of neoprene as it disolved them, and we tended to run the engine on petrol after the races to clean out all of the castings.

D T-S is right () about it being a carcinogen (sp?), if you get it on your skin your are taking a serious risk. As with smoking, there is no garuantee that you will suffer, but a number do.

As an alternative, buy a good octane booster. These are available in bulk, are not too expensive, and a lot less dangerous.

Duncan

PS The turbo F1 era was , you could tell who was on a hot qualifying lap by the cloud of black smoke behind the car.

ssubaru

What do you mean bugeyed that dt-s is right ,think i said it first not that i am being bitchy or nothing
ssubaru

BugEyed

ssubaru

Yep, you were first, and you and D T-S are correct - it is somewhat dangerous and the benefit isn't worth the danger IMHO.

Duncan

Boost II

iTrader: (1)

Sorry BugEye, but if you have irrefutable evidence that toluene is carcinogenic you should publish it in a scientific journal and let the rest of the world outside Scoobynet know.

I am a pharmaceutical chemist and use all sorts of nasties everyday. This kind of knowledge is bread and butter to me Toluene is not even classed strictly speaking as "toxic" - this is not to say it is not harmful at all and standard precautions should be taken as with all chemicals - do not inhale, no skin contact, no naked flames etc But no harm would come if you spilt some on your garage floor and had to mop it up with some rubber gloves on.

Good point that it is corrosive to plastic and rubbers though.

If you really don't believe me do a search on the web for Toluene and MSDS. Hopefully you should find some Material Safety Data Sheets which chemical suppliers provide with their chemicals.

Not sure where you would have got your toluene from but it is perhaps feasible that it could contain amounts of benzene, so perhaps that is why you were told it was so bad.

BugEyed

Boost II

I bow to your superior knowledge. When it was used in F1 we took some fairly extreme precautions, but maybe it was over the top. As you say, it may have been for other reasons.

Ignoring my inaccurate assertions about cancer, I would still think very carefully before using toluene in my Scoob because of the need to ensure that all of the rubbers in the fuel system are resistant to it. In particular, I have concerns over the O rings used at the top of the injectors - if these fail you might have a major engine fire.

Sorry to be negative.

Duncan

ssubaru

HI
toluene very dangerous it is well known as a cancer causeing agent when exposed to human beings ,was told this by a chemical analist when i tried to by some
ssubaru
ps i believe this is the stuff all petrochemical companys use to bring up there octane rateing

[Edited by ssubaru - 4/11/2002 7:44:12 PM]

Boost II

iTrader: (1)

Dave-TS obviously has no idea what 3 little nitro groups do to an aromatic ring

Also that insignificant seeming methyl group that differentiates toluene from benzene is actually rather useful. It stops toluene intercalating DNA so well and is readily oxidised in the body to give benzoic acid which is water soluble and readily excreted. This means toluene has very little potential to be carcinogenic. Benzene is both a potent intercalator and has no metabolic handle to allow the body to remove it.

Do not be worried handling toluene - its not really that toxic. Don't go drinking it or bathing in it though. Take the same precautions you would when handling petrol etc.

Not sure what happens when you put it in the car though

[Edited by Boost II - 4/11/2002 9:19:42 PM]