Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Strange but true, a DD was removed from a MY00 and it felt almost just as fast. When the DD was fitted and 'tuned' to start with, the car felt much faster and punchier, taking it off and it seemed to retain the performance.

The DD will be refitted to check the difference again but I do remember another post about this with a similar story.

So what' going on????

1. Has the ECU learnt something new and retained the performance level?

2. Was there a placebo effect with the DD and it really wasn't quicker but just a different delvery of power (I find this hard to believe)?

3. Have I forgotten how much faster a DD car is already?

4. Am I mad?

Lastly and slightly off topic, the std ECU is vey good as we know but it's just the programming that sorts the good from bad. The question is can it produce as good results after reprogramming as the link/motec/gems? Why would these other systems be better?

F

ScoobyJawa

Floyd,

I found exactly the same!!! Weird!! However after the Dawes had been off a few days the car started to feel a bit slower and I certainly noticed the lack of torque.
In actuality I don't think it was much slower but the extra torque really made a difference to the cars driveability and thats what suffered. I could make the car go pretty much as quick I think, but I really had to work at the gears.
Also with the Dawes it seems to effortlessly sail to the red line but without it really struggles after say 5.5 to 6k revs.

Cheers
Neil.

mashwrx

I fitted the DD to my MY01 and did not notice any difference, even tuning up to the FCD cut-in point. This could possibly be explained by the fact that after initial fitting the boost is below stock level, I then had to tweak it up and perhaps after all this fannying around I lost the feel of the std car's performance.

even after removing the DD, it felt the same to me. I have yet to see any RR figures before/after to quantify the gains. Perhaps I was expecting greater things...

theoreticaly increased boost=more power so I can only presume that the power gains are slight, eg 10% ?

catflap

fitted mine last night, fitted it, it came to me set at 10 psi (was running 14 on my car normaly)

Car felt slow,

turned it up, bit at a tim, got it to 18.5 psi, HAHAHAH was so funny, up to 3rd it felt like the car was trying to take off, but i hit fuel cut in 4th, so had to turn it down, got it set to abou 17psi in 5th at WOT, its a little faster, i would say yeh 10% gain sounds right.

ScoobyJawa

Scott W and I had ours dynod after dawes. Mines was running just over 15Psi, think scotts was similar although not 100%. Both full decat.

Me - 266bhp and 257lb/ft
Scott - 268bhp and 251lb/ft

Had not had mine done with the decat on its own but scott had and got 256bhp and 233lb/ft. So about 10bhp more but about 20lb/ft. Running 16 or 16.5 Psi we would expect to see 270-270bhp and 260-270lb/ft...........

mutant_matt

I've got an MY00 (ae802) with just a PPP BB and the Dawes. On PE's rollers I got:

Before Dawes - 229bhp / 221 ft/lbs torque
After Dawes - 244bhp / 247 ft/lbs torque

I'm running the Dawes at a true 1.0 bar held (as reported by the EcuTek software) as opposed to the standard ECU's 0.9 bar held. The ramp up is also faster and higher and you can see less little spikes in the power and torque curves which I'm guessing is due to the car running just ever so slightly leaner across the whole range.

The two runs were taken a couple of weeks apart on very similarly cold days and both times a reference car was run and got exactly book figures so I think the comparison is a valid one.

The car only feels a little faster but the improvement in drivability is quite noticable (which I'm sure to notice when I take the Dawes off).

Matt

dowser

Floyd/Neil

What boost were you running the Dawes at, and what boost with OE control?

If performance is the same with less boost, then it sounds as if the ignition is being retarded when the Dawes is on. However, in general performance does increase with higher boost (although it's our 'cheap-and-nasty' way of doing things - look at what the tek2 does with, I think, 1.1bar and proper fuel/ignition optimisation!).

One way to tell is to reset the ecu when swapping from Dawes to OE BC's (depending on state of tune you should maybe at least be monitoring for knock as well ).

While trying to investigate 'my00 PPP with breathing mods and crappy boost control' issues, I found that refitting the solenoid after 4 weeks with Dawes didn't show any boost control problems. This was a *big* surprise - ambient was 5 degrees and I was using a standard restrictor. Guaranteed, I thought, to produce oscillation - it didn't, boost control was perfect.

I didn't think to reset the ecu at the time - but don't see how the ecu can learn anything valuable about boost control when the solenoid is not doing anything to, or for, boost!

Still interesting though......

I wasn't interested in the performance aspect (I only run the Dawes at slightly more than a de-restricted PPP anyway).

I think we're going to see more people reverting to OE control (or at least backing off the Dawes boost level) once they have access to the DeltaDash logging software. On a cold morning and getting 1.3bar on mine, at 3k on a slight incline, I think I can feel the ignition being retarded

Richard

mutant_matt

Dowser, you've seen my boost levels with the Dawes and without and I did log my dyno run (the 2nd one with the Dawes) @ PE with the DetaDash software and there was not a trace of knock or ignition retard across the whole rev range.

On a cold day, I'm getting no more than peaks of 1.1bar whilst holding 1 bar with the Dawes.

Don't know if this helps but in case it does....

Matt

ScoobyJawa

Standard at standard boost I had 233bhp and 221lb/ft.

I went to PE and ran shortly after putting the Dawes on (by now had a full decat too) and got 266bhp and 257lb/ft. PE had the select monitor on my car and absolutely everything was fine, fueling, not a trace of knock etc. I was running Optimax. They also told me that my boost was just over 15Psi so not that high at all - not much over standard in fact. With boost up at 16 I would expect to see 275 and 265 ish. PE RR was done in Jan so a reasonably cold day.

I don't think the Dawes effects the BHP *that* much although it does increase it a bit, and thats why the car didn't feel much different, but having to work it harder. The torque was missed and made the car less driveable and lead to "change down a cog to go" rather than stay in gear with the Dawes.

As I said, straight after taking off, it didn't feel a lot different but after a few days I guess the ECU learned boost wasn't as high or something?

Never did a reset either in doing all of that....

Andy Hobson

That happenned to me as well. The dyno figures bear it out. Pre-Dawes I got 236bhp at PE on a cold morning. I fitted the Dawes and it felt a lot quicker. A few weeks later I went back to PE to get the Tek2 fitted. They removed the Dawes and dynoed the car again on a warm evening. Guess what ? It made 246bhp and IIRC the torque was up as well ! It's like something in the ECU changed when the Dawes was added.

Andy.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Andy

It'll be interesting to see if this effect wears off over time with the DD removed.

I know that after a few weeks of commuting my std starts to car feel slower and slower. Only after a very good prologed 'drive' will it feel better.

BTW a reset did nothing to improve this.

F

mega_stream

I've taken my Dawes of twice now, both times a serious change in performance was noticed.

Boost on mine is 15.5 held and 16.5 peak

And both times it was removed the drop in performance was noticed straight away (MY99 with Brown ECU)

john banks

I found a quite noticeable performance difference with it on and then a big drop compared with standard (PPP) boost control.

dowser

John

How was the boost control though - any oscillations? Mine was spot on!

Richard

john banks

It was oscillating with a 1.3mm restrictor and standard actator setting. The ECU was reset as it had been unplugged whilst I had the MY00 ECU in.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Just to add more confusion to this issue, the car has had a reset after DD removal and feels the same (just as quick). Before DD boost was 15 peak and 14 held on a good day in 5th, after DD 16.5? (it's hard to watch!) and 15 held.

The stock car produced 233 bhp/ 232lbs at PE so we'll see what happens on the 27th.

F

[Edited by Floyd - 4/5/2002 11:35:15 AM]