Stuart Taylor

I have got a very noisy engine from cold which goes away after a couple of miles. I have had the number 4 piston changed for slap so hopefully it shouldnt be this. I was wondering if it was the timing belt tensioner, does it make a lot of noise from cold and then go away when it starts to get warm? Has anyone had this problem? And is there an easy way of doing simple tests to pin it down to the tensioner?

Any replies much apprieciated


Stuart

MY98 and no warranty left and 50000 miles on the clock

[Edited by Stuart Taylor - 3/26/2002 5:03:44 PM]

dowser

I had this done under warranty on my my00 - I've heard of other 99/00's with the same, but never a my98.....

Richard

scoobyboy

if it is the upright tensioner which i think it will be then yes it probably is faulty. iv done a few now and got one to do tomorrow.
when they first came out dealers used to push the piston back in the vice the same way as the old type but through experience they realised that doing it that way renders them useless they have to be pushed back vertically so i wonder if the person who done your belt change pushed it back wrong?

Stuart Taylor

Scoobyboy

Is it normal when they are knackered to make a noise when cold and then for it to go when the car warms up?
Also do you know if there is a simple test to see if that is the culprit? And how much to change?

Thanks Stuart

MattRus

My MY00 Forester (same engine) had the tensioner replaced at approx. 30K miles under warranty. Started making a noise from cold at about 20K miles and progressively got worse. Audible from cold (ie. first thing in the morning), silent when warm!
Can't comment on the cost of the part, but about 2-3 hours labour.
Originally thought the noise was piston slap, quite similar symptoms.

scoobyboy

yes it's normal they lose pressure after a period of time and have to pump themselves back up i.e the tensioner bounces causing the belt to whip which is the noise you can hear until the pressure is back then all goes quiet.
as for tests there isn't any really if you take it off try pushing the piston against something solid if it moves it's buggered. the easiest way i found was to remove the left hand timing cover let it stand overnight or a long period of time then start it up and watching with a torch look at the tensioner it will look like it's vibrating or bouncing very quickly and then will gradually stop and just look still but other than that replacing it is the only way.

Stuart Taylor

Scoobyboy

Thanks for the previous replies but I have got a few more questions if you dont mind.
Does it sound very similar to piston slap? As I know what this sounds like as I have had it. And the noise seems very similar. Could it be piston slap on another cylinder as I have had number 4 changed?
Is this something I could change myself or is it best to get it down to a dealer for the replacement?
Can you leave it or will it break then causing problems with the timing belt?
I phoned my dealer for the price of the part and he quoted me £194 plus vat! How many hours labour do you recon it is to change as you have done quite a few.
If you live local to me I could pay you to change mine if you want.

Thanks once again for everyones previous replies

Stuart

scoobyboy

it doesn't really sound like piston slap but it is very pronounced from the front of the engine. also when i do piston replacements i do piston 2 as well because i have been caught out only doing no.4 to start it up and find it's still there on cylinder 2 so i now do pistons 2 & 4 together.
you can do it your self you just need to remove the timing covers it's held in place by a 14mm bolt you just need to hold the belt in place when you remove it and reinstall the new one. it is a bit fiddly but you will be able to do it. as for leaving it i wouldn't advise it as if it does give up completely the belt will jump which means pistons kissing valves not nice.
it takes me about 30-45 mins job done on a ramp.
the price qouted does sound about right though and you'll have labour on top.
unfortunatly i dont think i live local to you as im in witney the other side of oxford or else i would do it for you no probs but if you want a drive up to let me hear it and advise you on what it is i can do that as well.

Stuart Taylor

Scoobyboy

I removed the left hand timing cover as you suggested and the belt was quite slack on the top but tight running along the bottom of the engine. I started the engine and watched the belt but it seemed quite stable and it didnt bounce around. I let it run for a couple of minutes and revved it up small amounts during this time but it looked ok. When the engine was stopped I checked the tightness on the belt going over the top of the engine and it did seem tighter than when I first checked it. Does this look as though the tentioner is performing as it should and is ok?
Thanks once again Stuart

Stuart Taylor

Scoobyboy

Sorry to keep asking questions but on your previous reply you did say that piston slap could affect more than one piston. I know I had only number 4 changed so could I have the same problem with another piston? Is there a simple test to try and eliminate this. The service technican did say something about pulling off the injector lead from different pistons and seeing if the noise went away. I did let my local dealer have a listen and he reconed it wasnt piston slap but I wonder whether he was trying to fob me off as it would have meant alot of paperwork trying to claim for another piston on a vehicle that had already had it done and was now out of warranty.

Thanks Stuart

scoobyboy

the belt should be the same tension all the way round, the belt may flex slightly more on longer sections but generally the tightness should be the same. you do need though to look more at the tensioner than the belt when you first start the engine as it should look perfectly still from start up.when they go they tend to look as though they are vibrating on start up and then gradually come to a perfect stillness. the fact that you said it was tighter when it had run for a few minutes seems to me that you do have a problem with it. dont be scared to rev it up when it's running as if it has got a problem with it then giving it some revs i.e 2000-3000 may be the only way to see it. another test you could do is when it has stood over night still with the cover off (n/s cover) turn the engine anti clockwise with a bar and 22mm socket on the front pully nut while looking at the tensioner if you see slackness in the belt under or around the tensioner or the piston in it move at all no matter how slight change it as there should be no movement at all this was a test given to us by i.m to do.
as for piston slap yes you could have a problem still if they only done no.4 i dont like disconnecting the injecter plugs just incase the ecu gets funny about it and theres the problem of it running on three you get allsorts of extra funny noises so it can be a bit difficult to diagnose if it has gone or not

Stuart Taylor

Scoobyboy

Thanks for all the help. I think I will have another look at the tensioner as it sounds like it may be on its way out. And I will take it back to the dealer to get them to check out the piston slap and mention to them that I now know it can affect more than one piston. That may make them listen properly.

Thanks once again Stuart

MichaelWRX

I too thought I had piston slap in my MY01 WRX from about 3,000 k's. Loud knocking from left cylinder bank when cold (but only about 30% of time). Found others who had same prob and they had theirs fixed = cambelt tensioner.

I recorded the noise to CD and took to dealer and played it. They looked and found the unit had no pressure and was stuffed. Runs nice now.

Michael

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I have an MY00 that ticks when cold. It almost sounds like Hydraulic tappets priming.

An oil change has not cured it, so could it be the in-famous MY00 tensioner failing and causing the ticking.

The tick only last for about 20 seconds, but IMHO thats 20 seconds too long on a car thats only done 16,000 miles.

Pieman

Me too! If it is the tensioner, should it be fixed immediately, or can it be 'left' for a few months?

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

ScoobyBoy,

You have mail regarding Tensioners on MY00

Cheers

Pieman2

So does it need immediate attention then?

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Is the timing belt tensioner, in question, on an MY99/00 the one with the small pin that pushes against the casting.

It's quite a large bit of kit, and the jockey wheel (on the Graham Goode Display engine) is painted Blue on it's inner edge.

I presume this is green on the modified unit.

Does anyone have a piccie of MY99/00 as I am cincerned that there may be more than one tensioner.

scoobyboy

the paint mark is only a blue dot usally on the side of the bolt head thats in the middle of the jocky pully. it sounds like your on about the colour of the seal on the bearing.

st33ly

My mate had exactly the same prob on his my 01 wrx. Dealer replaced timing belt tensioner under warranty!

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I would get it under warranty, except it's a Euro Import registed Nov2000. So the 2 year warranty ran out last November.

musdavis

Just wondered if I had the same problem on my96 Uk. Can anyone advise?

I had the cam belt changed in March 2004 (about 95k miles) and the rattle started at this time. It's worse at start up but never really goes away. It also only seems to rattle at certain revs.

The main dealership diagnosed a big end failure, but this was well over a year (and 12k miles ago). Just had the car serviced and again the dealer insists it is a big end problem.

Does this sound more like a tensioner to you?

musdavis

Anyone else had this problem?

p1mark

dealers eh

there is no way that if you had a knock from the big ends, it would last 12K miles without becoming terminal.

JamieMacdonald

Yes I had exactly this problem TWICE in 14 months on my MY97!
When I first got the car I had it serviced and the dealer said the tensioner was leaking (no noise) and advised me to change it straight away. Then just over a year later I started to get the noise exactly as described earlier in this thread, think it sounded a bit like a helicopter . I was convinced it was piston slap , but managed to get StevieB to listen to it (he had actually heard piston slap) and he said that it sounded totally different. So I did some research on piston slap/noises on here and found a couple of references to tensioner failure. Went to the dealer and basically told them what to check (as you have to with our local dealer ), and they replaced the tensioner again - this one only cost about £100 (Subaru had dropped prices apparently ).

I'm pretty sure when they replaced it the first time they didn't follow the correct procedure to compress the tensioner piston, which caused it to fail so soon. I tried to claim my money back as it had failed so soon but the dealer was so useless I gave up in the end. But looking back I'm just soooooooooo glad it wasn't piston slap!

J

JIM THEO

Jamie the Subaru tensioner after 2000 comes pretensioned with a fork and the dealer has only to take out the fork after fitting.
So probably yours is the old shape tensioner right?

JamieMacdonald

Correctamundo mate