Front-Mount Intercoolers
18 February 2002, 09:47 AM
#1
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Hi,
I'm thinking of doing some modifications to my PPP'd RB5. At the last rolling road day (Power Engineering) a couple of guys had front-mounts and seemed to get good power as a result.
Has anyone got any advice / stories re: installation, fuel consumption, insurance, power and torque changes? Ideally torque and power will go up and fuel consumption will go down... ya right
Also... can anyone recommend a specific supplier or manufacturer of front mounts?
ta,
Matt
I'm thinking of doing some modifications to my PPP'd RB5. At the last rolling road day (Power Engineering) a couple of guys had front-mounts and seemed to get good power as a result.
Has anyone got any advice / stories re: installation, fuel consumption, insurance, power and torque changes? Ideally torque and power will go up and fuel consumption will go down... ya right
Also... can anyone recommend a specific supplier or manufacturer of front mounts?
ta,
Matt
18 February 2002, 12:25 PM
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Hi
I can recommend the Hyperflow intercooler.
Took 3 1/2 hours to remove old and fit new.
Cost me less than a thou all in inc vat postage etc.
Took 4 days to arrive from Aussieland.
Uses original Subaru mounting points and comes with all clips brackets pipes filter etc etc.
About 3-3 1/2 times the size of original top mount.
Can mail you pics of install if you want.
A
I can recommend the Hyperflow intercooler.
Took 3 1/2 hours to remove old and fit new.
Cost me less than a thou all in inc vat postage etc.
Took 4 days to arrive from Aussieland.
Uses original Subaru mounting points and comes with all clips brackets pipes filter etc etc.
About 3-3 1/2 times the size of original top mount.
Can mail you pics of install if you want.
A
18 February 2002, 01:10 PM
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Matt,
It would probably only be worth doing if you are getting excessively high intake temperatures as then the benefits will outweigh the cost.
If you're already running with reasonable intake temps without any problems then there wouldn't be much advantage of running a front mount due to the cost involved of buying and fitting one.
The front mount will definetly give a power increase due to the lower intake temps due to the increased size, but it will also increase the lag slightly due to the air from the turbo having a larger volume to fill before getting to the engine. This can be minimised by using the shortest piping routes possible.
As a result of more air getting to the engine, the ECU will add more fuel (giving the extra power) and so you may well notice a slight decrease in mpg but only if you use the extra power available.
As an alternative, you could always get an upgraded top mount and that will provide some improvement in performance at a more affordable cost.
Hope this helps
Andy
It would probably only be worth doing if you are getting excessively high intake temperatures as then the benefits will outweigh the cost.
If you're already running with reasonable intake temps without any problems then there wouldn't be much advantage of running a front mount due to the cost involved of buying and fitting one.
The front mount will definetly give a power increase due to the lower intake temps due to the increased size, but it will also increase the lag slightly due to the air from the turbo having a larger volume to fill before getting to the engine. This can be minimised by using the shortest piping routes possible.
As a result of more air getting to the engine, the ECU will add more fuel (giving the extra power) and so you may well notice a slight decrease in mpg but only if you use the extra power available.
As an alternative, you could always get an upgraded top mount and that will provide some improvement in performance at a more affordable cost.
Hope this helps
Andy
18 February 2002, 01:38 PM
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Hi John
Dunno how to post pics on the board but if you mail me, i can forward them on to you.
Got quite a lot, so any specific ones you need just ask or i will send a variety.
P.S. If you mail me, there will also be a couple of other interesting ones for you...........but i won't let John Banks see them.........well.....not before you,ve taught him how to drive on track!!!!!
Ray, mail coming in.......
Dunno how to post pics on the board but if you mail me, i can forward them on to you.
Got quite a lot, so any specific ones you need just ask or i will send a variety.
P.S. If you mail me, there will also be a couple of other interesting ones for you...........but i won't let John Banks see them.........well.....not before you,ve taught him how to drive on track!!!!!
Ray, mail coming in.......
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18 February 2002, 02:53 PM
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thanks Alan,
looks a cracking bit of kit and makes the front of the car look more aggresive .my only worry would be the pipes as they enter/leave the front mount look very low,just the right height to get damaged in a gravel trap 
.
you will have to take me out at K/hill and show me how it's done
,I just knew it was those pictures that were coming you rotten sh1te 
,still never spun though or hit anything thank ****,I remember aiming for the blue barrel and riding it out as I was rather sideways leaving the hairpin ,that day was so wet I just wanted to see how sideways I could get it,unfortunately I lost 
,still do not know how I did not spin or how I ever stopped,as I could not brake on the grass.
better do some work before I get battered
[Edited by T-uk - 2/18/2002 2:54:51 PM]
looks a cracking bit of kit and makes the front of the car look more aggresive
.my only worry would be the pipes as they enter/leave the front mount look very low,just the right height to get damaged in a gravel trap .you will have to take me out at K/hill and show me how it's done
,I just knew it was those pictures that were coming you rotten sh1te ,still never spun though or hit anything thank ****,I remember aiming for the blue barrel and riding it out as I was rather sideways leaving the hairpin ,that day was so wet I just wanted to see how sideways I could get it,unfortunately I lost ,still do not know how I did not spin or how I ever stopped,as I could not brake on the grass.better do some work before I get battered
[Edited by T-uk - 2/18/2002 2:54:51 PM]
18 February 2002, 02:58 PM
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Hi John
I was concerned about the hoses as well, but so far have no problems with them, even on the back roads near me.
To those in Scotland that remember the West Coast meet last year, you'll know what the roads were like
The APS front mount has a similar problem with the hoses but being Samco, they will probably just squash and scrape if things got out of hand.
I was concerned about the hoses as well, but so far have no problems with them, even on the back roads near me.
To those in Scotland that remember the West Coast meet last year, you'll know what the roads were like
The APS front mount has a similar problem with the hoses but being Samco, they will probably just squash and scrape if things got out of hand.
18 February 2002, 03:02 PM
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http://upload.turbosport.co.uk/
Lets see those pictures... including ones with John on the grass if available
Lets see those pictures... including ones with John on the grass if available
18 February 2002, 03:56 PM
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Hi John
Want to get Matts thread back on track
Matt
Here's a few pics of the front mount.
To recap:
Install? very easy to fit as no mods need to be done to the car except bumper which is no big deal even for a cabbage like me.
Fuel consumption? Don't really notice much difference.
Insurance? They wanted to know what power output and how much it cost.
Power and torque? Most noticeable from 4500-5000rpm as being the biggest difference (IMO). Probably due to much cooler inlet charge, pulls very strongly at this rev range whereas before it would sort of feel flat if that makes sense.
A
Want to get Matts thread back on track
Matt
Here's a few pics of the front mount.
To recap:
Install? very easy to fit as no mods need to be done to the car except bumper which is no big deal even for a cabbage like me.
Fuel consumption? Don't really notice much difference.
Insurance? They wanted to know what power output and how much it cost.
Power and torque? Most noticeable from 4500-5000rpm as being the biggest difference (IMO). Probably due to much cooler inlet charge, pulls very strongly at this rev range whereas before it would sort of feel flat if that makes sense.
A
18 February 2002, 04:31 PM
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back skiving 
Alan,
looks like you have air con too and a different oil filler pipe?
for you all to have a laugh I'll try and post the pics,sorry for the wee hi-jack of the thread.I hope the turbosport site do not mind me using the loader.
Alan do you have any pictures of me on the bend just to show how sideways I was?
Alan,
looks like you have air con too and a different oil filler pipe?
for you all to have a laugh I'll try and post the pics,sorry for the wee hi-jack of the thread.I hope the turbosport site do not mind me using the loader.
Alan do you have any pictures of me on the bend just to show how sideways I was?
18 February 2002, 04:33 PM
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Hi John
Well spotted. Yup i've got air-con. The oil filler pipe was also supplied by Hyperflow. Good quality stuff.
Re: Knockhill pics, maybe best to start a thread in Scotland forum?
You weren't the only one to have an *off* day!!
I've got pics of an owner in a red Impreza, now he was lucky!!
cheers
A
[Edited by AlanG - 2/18/2002 4:37:44 PM]
Well spotted. Yup i've got air-con. The oil filler pipe was also supplied by Hyperflow. Good quality stuff.
Re: Knockhill pics, maybe best to start a thread in Scotland forum?
You weren't the only one to have an *off* day!!
I've got pics of an owner in a red Impreza, now he was lucky!!
cheers
A
[Edited by AlanG - 2/18/2002 4:37:44 PM]
18 February 2002, 06:06 PM
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nice looking bumper mate
i have to agree with alan, i have seen, so far the aps, hyperflow and the pace kits already had the aps. if i would buy another one i would give the intercooler a very good thought. it is probably better than the other two mentioned above.
sam
i have to agree with alan, i have seen, so far the aps, hyperflow and the pace kits already had the aps. if i would buy another one i would give the intercooler a very good thought. it is probably better than the other two mentioned above.
sam
18 February 2002, 09:15 PM
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mattski2, I was one of the people at PE with FMIC.
Can only comment on the PACE...Very good results when used with HKS boost controller and de-cat.
If you want any info let me know, Mole and I fitted the kit in two days without the aid of a safety net...I mean instructions
Pros...No cutting, short pipe runs, retain air-con, low key installation (set back), and you can remove it when you sell the car.
Quick pic of ours...
Cheers, Moles Dad and Mole.
Can only comment on the PACE...Very good results when used with HKS boost controller and de-cat.
If you want any info let me know, Mole and I fitted the kit in two days without the aid of a safety net...I mean instructions
Pros...No cutting, short pipe runs, retain air-con, low key installation (set back), and you can remove it when you sell the car.
Quick pic of ours...
Cheers, Moles Dad and Mole.
18 February 2002, 11:10 PM
#21
If your going to fit a front mount and have a TD04 turbo ( MY97 on UK spec cars) IMO don't bother unless you fit a bigger turbo... the TD04 is a bit small and you'll end up with a lot of lag
If you fit a bigger turbo then your going to need a some form of remap, be it a boost controller, unichip, link, motec and so on.
Just my thoughts, that and I like my HKS front mount
If you fit a bigger turbo then your going to need a some form of remap, be it a boost controller, unichip, link, motec and so on.
Just my thoughts, that and I like my HKS front mount
19 February 2002, 09:07 AM
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Thanks for the info guys, really good...
O.K... so, a front-mount will potentially give me lag? hmm, well, I don't want to loose the tractability and mid-range punch that I have at the moment, I just want to get more of it...
What are your thoughts with how to go, considering the car is PPP'd + decat.
I am quite tempted to get the Apexi induction kit that's in the For Sale section, but if it's anything like the Blitz SUS that I put on my MY94 WRX I don't want it ! (just didn't get on with it, for some reason all the torque seemed to vanish, although the car did seem to rev a lot more easily.)
Other thoughts turn to an upgraded top-mount intercooler, perhaps an MRT (would an STi 5 intercooler fit?). I guess the other option would be something like this RC Developments kit:-
STAGE 2 1.1 bar
APEXi S-AFC
APEXi S-AVCR
FSE Fuel Pressure Regulator
RC Uprated Fuel pump
RC Fuel Cut Protection
HKS Iridium Spark Plugs
For Track Use
RC Oil Cooler Upgrade
What do you reckon?
ta,
Matt.
O.K... so, a front-mount will potentially give me lag? hmm, well, I don't want to loose the tractability and mid-range punch that I have at the moment, I just want to get more of it...
What are your thoughts with how to go, considering the car is PPP'd + decat.
I am quite tempted to get the Apexi induction kit that's in the For Sale section, but if it's anything like the Blitz SUS that I put on my MY94 WRX I don't want it ! (just didn't get on with it, for some reason all the torque seemed to vanish, although the car did seem to rev a lot more easily.)
Other thoughts turn to an upgraded top-mount intercooler, perhaps an MRT (would an STi 5 intercooler fit?). I guess the other option would be something like this RC Developments kit:-
STAGE 2 1.1 bar
APEXi S-AFC
APEXi S-AVCR
FSE Fuel Pressure Regulator
RC Uprated Fuel pump
RC Fuel Cut Protection
HKS Iridium Spark Plugs
For Track Use
RC Oil Cooler Upgrade
What do you reckon?
ta,
Matt.
19 February 2002, 10:53 AM
#24
Like ALANG I too have the Hyperflow.
It is massive! I found a significant improvement in all round performance and given the high summer temps in Perth 30c + I reckon they are mandatory on any REX with mods.
I went the route of exhaust , Link , VF22 and FMIC progressively -That way each component gives you more power and more grin factor at each up grade.
I have also installed insulation around the FMIC outlet hose and water spray.
I am safely boosting to 1.4 bar now as inlet temperatures are so cool.
Just a word of warning the replacement oil filler pipe failed on mine after a couple of weeks - at the flange connection.
Kevin of Hyperflow replaced immediately - no problems and it might have been a one off .It appeared to be a failure in the heat effected zone of the aluminium tubing-too much heat during welding .Just keep an eye on it , because oil pisses out of that flange.
It is massive! I found a significant improvement in all round performance and given the high summer temps in Perth 30c + I reckon they are mandatory on any REX with mods.
I went the route of exhaust , Link , VF22 and FMIC progressively -That way each component gives you more power and more grin factor at each up grade.
I have also installed insulation around the FMIC outlet hose and water spray.
I am safely boosting to 1.4 bar now as inlet temperatures are so cool.
Just a word of warning the replacement oil filler pipe failed on mine after a couple of weeks - at the flange connection.
Kevin of Hyperflow replaced immediately - no problems and it might have been a one off .It appeared to be a failure in the heat effected zone of the aluminium tubing-too much heat during welding .Just keep an eye on it , because oil pisses out of that flange.
19 February 2002, 02:48 PM
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Hi Matt
The Hyperflow intercooler kit comes supplied with a K&N induction kit as standard so no additional cost there.
Curious about your "STAGE 2 1.1 bar" suggestion, PPP gives you that increase in boost pressure over standard.
My lag reduced when i fitted the front mount, though I know most people experience more lag when they fit theirs. I believe Rob here has also increased lag with his VF22?
Oil cooler: good move.
Rob: Thanks for the bit of advice, haven't had any problems with mine but am now aware of it. As an alternative I think the short oil filler pipe from the Legacy will give enough intercooler hose clearance.
cheers
Alan
The Hyperflow intercooler kit comes supplied with a K&N induction kit as standard so no additional cost there.
Curious about your "STAGE 2 1.1 bar" suggestion, PPP gives you that increase in boost pressure over standard.
My lag reduced when i fitted the front mount, though I know most people experience more lag when they fit theirs. I believe Rob here has also increased lag with his VF22?
Oil cooler: good move.
Rob: Thanks for the bit of advice, haven't had any problems with mine but am now aware of it. As an alternative I think the short oil filler pipe from the Legacy will give enough intercooler hose clearance.
cheers
Alan
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