TD04L-9B compressor map looks genuine...
29 January 2002, 01:23 PM
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** whispers ** John, but what does this mean...I don't really understand it!
There's pressure ratio (can't read what units) on one axis, and airflow in cubic metres per second on the other. What do the lines, %age and rpm values relate to?
Doh
Richard
There's pressure ratio (can't read what units) on one axis, and airflow in cubic metres per second on the other. What do the lines, %age and rpm values relate to?
Doh
Richard
29 January 2002, 01:34 PM
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Pressure ratio is your boost in bar + 1 rouhgly IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TURBO - don't know their units so PR 2.2 = 1.2 bar boost.
20 deg C conditions.
The RPMs are the turbo rotation speeds.
The islands are % efficiency for a given flow and PR.
Using volumetric efficiency estimates you can position a point on the plot for a given boost and engine speed and thus work out how high to put your boost so you don't surge (going left of the left hand line) by having too low flow at too high turbo rotation speed or you don't go off or too far off the top or right hand side of the graph ie making a load of heat!
I'll post a nice spreadsheet I found later when I find the link.
I'm sure clever people will add/correct as appropriate!
Edit to say I must be a muppet as I am now a member of the 2000+ posts club
But I have never posted in Muppets - what does this mean??!! On second thoughts don't say it won't be nice!
[Edited by john banks - 1/29/2002 1:38:58 PM]
20 deg C conditions.
The RPMs are the turbo rotation speeds.
The islands are % efficiency for a given flow and PR.
Using volumetric efficiency estimates you can position a point on the plot for a given boost and engine speed and thus work out how high to put your boost so you don't surge (going left of the left hand line) by having too low flow at too high turbo rotation speed or you don't go off or too far off the top or right hand side of the graph ie making a load of heat!
I'll post a nice spreadsheet I found later when I find the link.
I'm sure clever people will add/correct as appropriate!
Edit to say I must be a muppet as I am now a member of the 2000+ posts club
But I have never posted in Muppets - what does this mean??!! On second thoughts don't say it won't be nice![Edited by john banks - 1/29/2002 1:38:58 PM]
29 January 2002, 01:47 PM
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John, why didn't you say? I've had that graph on the back of the bog Dawes for ages
Muppetism, or Mupetitis for the seriously afflicted, is the Scooby equivalent of BSE. You're waaaay past that, mate
Richard
Muppetism, or Mupetitis for the seriously afflicted, is the Scooby equivalent of BSE. You're waaaay past that, mate
Richard
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29 January 2002, 02:23 PM
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"This map assumes a comp efficiency of 70% and a VE of 90%, 1 standard atm of ambient pressure, 80% intercooler efficiency, an inlet suction vacuum of .5psi, full throttle and an 85 degree ambient temperature: {MY EDIT}(he is talking degrees F not C)
This should give you a rough idea (certainly not perfect) of kinda what the EJ20 should be doing. Since it uses a single efficiency value, it's a little lame, but you have to pull 169 pts off the actual comp map for it to be adjusted for a true look.
Here is how you read it, find the line that represents the boost you are running, each dot represents a 500rpm increment, going from 2000->8000. Draw a line down and that shows you the airflow it's at. NOW, go back to your compressor map, and find the pressure ratio (this is calculated as 1 + boost/14.7) and draw a line across the map. If your airflow falls in the surge area at that rpm, that's what the turbo is doing. This should give you at least a rough idea. Keep in mind, this is made for printing to a transparency, so it's supposed to overlay a compressor map. The left side isn't really "pressure ratio" "
Conduit posted this on I-club a while back on one of my threads http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=127686
As he says it has weaknesses in that it has static assumptions, and he is also assuming the compressor efficiency to work out airflow and then looking up on this map to find compressor efficiency!
There is also the small issue of lb/min rather than the units on the map.
This assumes 100% VE but is in CFM and could be converted to metric.
Any better method of fathoming out these thing?
BTW - is a MY99/00 a 9B??
[Edited by john banks - 1/29/2002 2:26:41 PM]
This should give you a rough idea (certainly not perfect) of kinda what the EJ20 should be doing. Since it uses a single efficiency value, it's a little lame, but you have to pull 169 pts off the actual comp map for it to be adjusted for a true look.
Here is how you read it, find the line that represents the boost you are running, each dot represents a 500rpm increment, going from 2000->8000. Draw a line down and that shows you the airflow it's at. NOW, go back to your compressor map, and find the pressure ratio (this is calculated as 1 + boost/14.7) and draw a line across the map. If your airflow falls in the surge area at that rpm, that's what the turbo is doing. This should give you at least a rough idea. Keep in mind, this is made for printing to a transparency, so it's supposed to overlay a compressor map. The left side isn't really "pressure ratio" "
Conduit posted this on I-club a while back on one of my threads http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=127686
As he says it has weaknesses in that it has static assumptions, and he is also assuming the compressor efficiency to work out airflow and then looking up on this map to find compressor efficiency!
There is also the small issue of lb/min rather than the units on the map.
This assumes 100% VE but is in CFM and could be converted to metric.
Any better method of fathoming out these thing?
BTW - is a MY99/00 a 9B??
[Edited by john banks - 1/29/2002 2:26:41 PM]
29 January 2002, 03:05 PM
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http://people.mw.mediaone.net/twintu...ressor_Map.htm
Ignore the coloured lines plotting a 3litre twin turbo over the top!
I think the pre MY97 (Euro spec GT Turbo) had TD05H-16G according to two sites I have found but could be wrong!
Still not certain if >MY97 is a 9B or not?
[Edited by john banks - 1/29/2002 3:06:12 PM]
Ignore the coloured lines plotting a 3litre twin turbo over the top!
I think the pre MY97 (Euro spec GT Turbo) had TD05H-16G according to two sites I have found but could be wrong!
Still not certain if >MY97 is a 9B or not?
[Edited by john banks - 1/29/2002 3:06:12 PM]
29 January 2002, 03:22 PM
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John,
I have a MY99 turbo in my hands right now. It shows: TD04L 990524068. Further I see a mark: 8L on the compressor housing. (isn´t this the compressor size?)
Isn´t the 9B the one for the MY01 WRX?
Mark Verhoeven.
I have a MY99 turbo in my hands right now. It shows: TD04L 990524068. Further I see a mark: 8L on the compressor housing. (isn´t this the compressor size?)
Isn´t the 9B the one for the MY01 WRX?
Mark Verhoeven.
29 January 2002, 05:55 PM
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hi john
these maps have got the flow in m2/s most of the ones i have seen seem to quote kg/s? do you know whta is the conversion. if they are the same the TD04-9B most be a very small turbo. ?
the TD05H is the same turbo the evo uses. the TD05H 15G is used in the mak and that is rated at 350-360bhp i think at 1.6bar so i think it is a lot bigger than what you would get in the scoob so maybe the scoob has a TD05H 13G? 14g?
the TD05H 16G that one i have is rated at 385bhp at 1.7 bar.
looking at the map should highlight how improtant it is to keep the turbo effeciency high ( low number) to stay in the outer islands. this could be achieved by increasing the intercooler effeciency ie FMIC is the way to go really no matter how you want to look at it?
sam
these maps have got the flow in m2/s most of the ones i have seen seem to quote kg/s? do you know whta is the conversion. if they are the same the TD04-9B most be a very small turbo. ?
the TD05H is the same turbo the evo uses. the TD05H 15G is used in the mak and that is rated at 350-360bhp i think at 1.6bar so i think it is a lot bigger than what you would get in the scoob so maybe the scoob has a TD05H 13G? 14g?
the TD05H 16G that one i have is rated at 385bhp at 1.7 bar.
looking at the map should highlight how improtant it is to keep the turbo effeciency high ( low number) to stay in the outer islands. this could be achieved by increasing the intercooler effeciency ie FMIC is the way to go really no matter how you want to look at it?
sam
29 January 2002, 06:49 PM
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I presume the conversion is based on the density of air at 20 degrees C and 1 atmosphere, but the map seems a bit useless if it is not the right one!
29 January 2002, 09:04 PM
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My turbo says
14412AA230
49377 04200
TD04L 0004010
So the first line is a model number
49377 is a TD04L housing and 04200 suffix denotes the model
0004 means April 00 manufacture.
The top picture is a 49377 04100 which is listed on one website as being the turbo for MY98 on.
It might be a 13G compressor wheel....
14412AA230
49377 04200
TD04L 0004010
So the first line is a model number
49377 is a TD04L housing and 04200 suffix denotes the model
0004 means April 00 manufacture.
The top picture is a 49377 04100 which is listed on one website as being the turbo for MY98 on.
It might be a 13G compressor wheel....
30 January 2002, 09:57 AM
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We don´t have the 9B, I calculated a bit around with the MAP at the top of this post and this compressor should be a lot smaller as the one of the TD04L. The pics proof it is!
I am also interested in a MAP which suits "our" turbo. (also interested in the MAP for the MY01)
(I have MAPS available for the VF23 and VF22, someone interested?)
Mark Verhoeven.
I am also interested in a MAP which suits "our" turbo. (also interested in the MAP for the MY01)
(I have MAPS available for the VF23 and VF22, someone interested?)
Mark Verhoeven.
30 January 2002, 10:10 AM
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I have a map for a TD04L-13G which is a compressed version of a genuine 15G compressor map adjusted to the flow spec and I think that is the nearest I will find. I will clean up the image and remove the overlay that was put over it for another car and post probably in a new thread to avoid confusion with the incorrect maps in this thread.
[Edited by john banks - 1/30/2002 10:16:17 AM]
[Edited by john banks - 1/30/2002 10:16:17 AM]
30 January 2002, 12:09 PM
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Is it possible for them to be posted on-line? If not do you want me to host them as I will be hosting the TD04L-13G one when done. Please email me with them also if you don't want them on-line.
30 January 2002, 12:47 PM
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Thought this might help,
http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=turbo.htm&url=http://www.turbofast.com.au/tfcalc.html
to calculate turbo efficiency.
Hope it helps
Iain
http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=turbo.htm&url=http://www.turbofast.com.au/tfcalc.html
to calculate turbo efficiency.
Hope it helps
Iain
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