Differences between Oil & Water Cooled Turbo?
Differences between Oil & Water Cooled Turbo?
15 September 2005, 09:58 PM
#2
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What a load of bollox, someones very confused or is telling porky-pies.
'Oil-cooled' = not water cooled, ie all cooling is by oil flowing through the bearings.
'Water-cooled' = oil does lubrication and water does cooling.
Water-cooled is always better. If you want to use an oil-cooled turbo (old truck turbo?) then you need to ensure that you have a good oil flow to the turbo and have a way of getting the heat out of it.
How many turbos do you have fitted anyway and what types are they? That might clarify where the confusion lies.
The cooling method has no effect on the spool rate. The choice of journal or ball-bearing might though (if you believe the sales hype). Ball-bearing turbos are always water cooled. Journal bearings can be water or oil cooled.
'Oil-cooled' = not water cooled, ie all cooling is by oil flowing through the bearings.
'Water-cooled' = oil does lubrication and water does cooling.
Water-cooled is always better. If you want to use an oil-cooled turbo (old truck turbo?) then you need to ensure that you have a good oil flow to the turbo and have a way of getting the heat out of it.
How many turbos do you have fitted anyway and what types are they? That might clarify where the confusion lies.
The cooling method has no effect on the spool rate. The choice of journal or ball-bearing might though (if you believe the sales hype). Ball-bearing turbos are always water cooled. Journal bearings can be water or oil cooled.
Last edited by DuncanG; 15 September 2005 at 10:02 PM.
16 September 2005, 09:01 PM
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You will find virtually all turbo's are oil cooled, putting water on them doesnt do much good, it normally evaporates at the temps they run, oil takes much higher temps for it to evaporate, plus it has the added benefits of not rusting the metal and lubricates the bearings 
Tony
Tony
16 September 2005, 09:20 PM
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Right, I'm still no nearer finding out definitively if oil or water cooled but it looks like I have 2 Garrett GT25 or GT28's (not sure how to tell the difference as it doesn't say on the turbo). The G stands for roller bearing AFAIK. Supposedly USA spec turbo's?
Clear as mud I know!
Clear as mud I know!
16 September 2005, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyBurns
You will find virtually all turbo's are oil cooled, putting water on them doesnt do much good, it normally evaporates at the temps they run, oil takes much higher temps for it to evaporate, plus it has the added benefits of not rusting the metal and lubricates the bearings
Tony
Tony
Are you trying to take up pslewis' job?
Last edited by ZEN Performance; 16 September 2005 at 09:25 PM.
16 September 2005, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Zen Performance
what on earth are you on about? Please keep your misinformation to yourself. All turbocharged Impreza's come with water cooled turbos from the factory.
Are you trying to take up pslewis' job?
Are you trying to take up pslewis' job?
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16 September 2005, 09:37 PM
#8
I don't know about Noble M12s but to try and clear up any misconceptions on Subarus this might help.
The GC8 turbo is water cooled and it has an oil feed to lubricate the turbine shaft / bearings. Oil enters on the top side and feeds via a pipe under the turbo back to the sump. The water return pipe flows back to the header tank.
Typically, rally cars operate without the water cooling. I have operated several turbos without cooling water but ceased that practice as I believe it substantially reduces turbo life for the small gains. It will also result in much higher localised oil temperature.
The GC8 turbo is water cooled and it has an oil feed to lubricate the turbine shaft / bearings. Oil enters on the top side and feeds via a pipe under the turbo back to the sump. The water return pipe flows back to the header tank.
Typically, rally cars operate without the water cooling. I have operated several turbos without cooling water but ceased that practice as I believe it substantially reduces turbo life for the small gains. It will also result in much higher localised oil temperature.
16 September 2005, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by STEVECHAPS
Right, I'm still no nearer finding out definitively if oil or water cooled but it looks like I have 2 Garrett GT25 or GT28's (not sure how to tell the difference as it doesn't say on the turbo). The G stands for roller bearing AFAIK. Supposedly USA spec turbo's?
Clear as mud I know!
Clear as mud I know!
As Harvey says, the benefits of water cooling, (longer life, self cooling after engine stop, decreased oil degradetion) far outway the benefits of oil only (reduced cost of turbo, easier to swap, which is why rally cars do it).
Paul
21 September 2005, 11:10 AM
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The Garret T25/T28 have feeds for water cooling, this cools around the main turbo housing, and an oil feed for bearing lubrication (possible extra cooling)
21 September 2005, 03:45 PM
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Arent the bearings encased in with water passages, and effectively, it is the water which is cooling the bearings (with oil providing lubrication - but also aiding cooling?)
The T25 and T28's as used in Nissan's are definitely water cooled.
The T25 and T28's as used in Nissan's are definitely water cooled.
22 September 2005, 09:54 PM
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These turbo's are not water cooled, to be water cooled you have to solely rely on the water to cool that part, ie a water cooled engine, normally alloy in construction, take away the water and the component fails very rapidly. On a turbo, you can take away the water and it still runs (the oil still takes most of the heat out of it), though it reduces the life it can still be efficient.
Also, you will find these turbos are water/air assisted, that is also more efficient.
Tony
Also, you will find these turbos are water/air assisted, that is also more efficient.
Tony
22 September 2005, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyBurns
These turbo's are not water cooled, to be water cooled you have to solely rely on the water to cool that part, ie a water cooled engine, normally alloy in construction, take away the water and the component fails very rapidly. On a turbo, you can take away the water and it still runs (the oil still takes most of the heat out of it), though it reduces the life it can still be efficient.
Also, you will find these turbos are water/air assisted, that is also more efficient.
Tony
Also, you will find these turbos are water/air assisted, that is also more efficient.
Tony
22 September 2005, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Zen Performance
If you remove the water cooling from a ball bearing garrett turbo, it will fail, the same with an IHI ball bearing turbo. Due to the bearings they have a restricted oil feed, not sufficient to properly cool the turbo.
Tony
22 September 2005, 10:02 PM
#16
Originally Posted by TonyBurns
These turbo's are not water cooled, to be water cooled you have to solely rely on the water to cool that part, ie a water cooled engine, normally alloy in construction, take away the water and the component fails very rapidly. On a turbo, you can take away the water and it still runs (the oil still takes most of the heat out of it), though it reduces the life it can still be efficient.
Also, you will find these turbos are water/air assisted, that is also more efficient.
Tony
Also, you will find these turbos are water/air assisted, that is also more efficient.
Tony
Tony.
22 September 2005, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Tone Loc
LOL.. another classic quote. Love it
Tony.
Tony.
so these will be water assisted, not just cooled.Tony
22 September 2005, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyBurns
its also true, you cannot run a turbo on water alone so these will be water assisted, not just cooled.
Tony
so these will be water assisted, not just cooled.Tony
22 September 2005, 10:26 PM
#19
Originally Posted by TonyBurns
its also true, you cannot run a turbo on water alone so these will be water assisted, not just cooled.
Tony
so these will be water assisted, not just cooled.Tony
. So if you use water to help cool an oil fed turbo in your mind it's not water cooled????Because Tony B spoke we must no longer say our turbos are water cooled, so i must have a TD which is oil cooled but assisted by water and air.
FFS, you take the biscuit.
Tony.
PS can you tell me a turbo that isn't 'air assisted' in it's cooling.... anybody run one on their car in a vacuum???
23 September 2005, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Zen Performance
what on earth are you on about? Please keep your misinformation to yourself. All turbocharged Impreza's come with water cooled turbos from the factory.
Are you trying to take up pslewis' job?
Are you trying to take up pslewis' job?
I think that reply should have been prefaced with
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MAN
23 September 2005, 11:14 AM
#23
Originally Posted by AndrewC
People like Tony help to keep you in business, surely the more misinformation that gets spread about, the better
All of which claim performance gains, but are mostly misinformation
23 September 2005, 09:08 PM
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Jesus, it was originally an innocent enough question!!!
However......I now know a bit more(
?).
The turbo's are both Garrett (still not sure what number as none showing on the casings), & they are each fed by two separate oil lines, so one for lubrication & one for cooling. I'm advised to get a turbo timer sharpish as 5-10 minutes cooling time is required!
The original info that they are USA spec & roller bearing is also correct.
Not sure if I'm happy or not, the spool up is lightning fast with no noticeable lag but if that's at the expense of longevity it's a potential high price to pay.
However......I now know a bit more(
?).The turbo's are both Garrett (still not sure what number as none showing on the casings), & they are each fed by two separate oil lines, so one for lubrication & one for cooling. I'm advised to get a turbo timer sharpish as 5-10 minutes cooling time is required!
The original info that they are USA spec & roller bearing is also correct.
Not sure if I'm happy or not, the spool up is lightning fast with no noticeable lag but if that's at the expense of longevity it's a potential high price to pay.
23 September 2005, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tone Loc
. So if you use water to help cool an oil fed turbo in your mind it's not water cooled????Because Tony B spoke we must no longer say our turbos are water cooled, so i must have a TD which is oil cooled but assisted by water and air.
FFS, you take the biscuit.
Tony.
PS can you tell me a turbo that isn't 'air assisted' in it's cooling.... anybody run one on their car in a vacuum???
No one mentioned air assisted until i did..... strange?
Right, there is no "real" water cooled turbo, simply because water doesnt cool the turbo enough.
There is one simple answer to this and all the "experts" have not yet explained it? any chance you want to?
I'll mention the word "physics".
I shall let you ponder that one for a while
Tony
23 September 2005, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyBurns
LOL
No one mentioned air assisted until i did..... strange?
Right, there is no "real" water cooled turbo, simply because water doesnt cool the turbo enough.
There is one simple answer to this and all the "experts" have not yet explained it? any chance you want to?
I'll mention the word "physics".
I shall let you ponder that one for a while
Tony
No one mentioned air assisted until i did..... strange?
Right, there is no "real" water cooled turbo, simply because water doesnt cool the turbo enough.
There is one simple answer to this and all the "experts" have not yet explained it? any chance you want to?
I'll mention the word "physics".
I shall let you ponder that one for a while
Tony
Water doesn't cool the turbo enough? Enough for what? How much does the water cool the turbo, and why isn't it enough?
One simple answer to this? What is 'this'?
Are you trying to be the new Mycroft?
Paul
24 September 2005, 12:20 PM
#29
Originally Posted by TonyBurns
LOL
No one mentioned air assisted until i did..... strange?
Right, there is no "real" water cooled turbo, simply because water doesnt cool the turbo enough.
There is one simple answer to this and all the "experts" have not yet explained it? any chance you want to?
I'll mention the word "physics".
I shall let you ponder that one for a while
Tony
No one mentioned air assisted until i did..... strange?
Right, there is no "real" water cooled turbo, simply because water doesnt cool the turbo enough.
There is one simple answer to this and all the "experts" have not yet explained it? any chance you want to?
I'll mention the word "physics".
I shall let you ponder that one for a while
Tony
LOL @ Physics... fooook off Tony
You really do talk crap... why don't you explain it to us. There are some intelligent people all listening on this thread for your answer. I'm sure the Enginneers among us would be very interested in the answer. I'm dying to hear your theory on properties of water for cooling.Tony.
24 September 2005, 01:14 PM
#30
Originally Posted by john banks
The braided lines give confidence if not performance, but have to agree on the rest ALi-B
Yeah, I may have been a bit iffy on that, my point was that they don't last as long and aren't as safe as the original rubber ones. Not sure how regularly they need to be changed as routine, but I know what happens when they aren't