Deep Singh

Been looking through the classifieds for a used 'classic' Scoob for 'fun'. Every 20th or so car seems to have had an engine rebuild. Having owned a few Scoobs in the past I knew there were 'issues' with engine reliability but it seems like buying a classic Scoob is like playing Russian roulette.

StickyMicky

i blame muppets modding them without a clue on what there doing, except they think it makes them "propa wikkid"

stands to reason that the odd standerd lump will fail, but i would best most of them have had ****ty ill planned mods.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Mine had fsh and just the PPP - and suffered a big end failure at 61k miles. I'd had it from new, always run it on SUL etc etc.

Sometimes it's just bad luck - it doesn't necessarily mean the car was modded or abused

Deep Singh

In general most of them are unmodded. If someone decides to just wack up the boost etc then they deserve what they get, but that does'nt seem to be the case.

All cars have some engine failures ie BMWs/Porsches etc. The difference is looking through the classifieds I lost track of how many Scoob adverts mentioned 'new engine'.

Never came across one Evo6+ advert that stated the same thing. The Evos clutch seems to 'go' at about 30k though!

Not scaremongering or Scoobybashing just an observation

Andy-pay

yep, noticed the same thing a few weeks back.

got similar comments (driven by chavs, daft mods etc) but most seemed decent enough owners, just engines going pop - usually around the 60k miles.

this was my thread, from beginning of Feb - "Risks buying Impreza with 40K on clock...".
could be worth a look (sorry, dont know how to do the clicky thing)

Deep Singh

Thanks Andy. I always knew from years back that some Scoob engines went bang, just amazed at the numbers. My own STi4 Type R went bang but two days after I traded it in! Put that down to uninformed dealer using bad fuel.
As you said thoughbthe owners are'nt usually Chavs who d'ont know how to look after a high performance car.

Maybe I'll go for a Evo

Deep

jjones

same with volvo t5 adverts, noticed a while back when i considered one.

zoton

Excuse the slight deviation from topic but this subject leads me to ask if it is possible to fully assess the risk of doing the following to a 60k UK turbo....

• Downpipe Decat
• Remap

And if it is considered ok, can you specify a conservative remap, or does that defeat the object a bit?

Does a remap automatically mean that a knocklink is needed, as it would seem logical that a good remap would mean as much protection as a standard car?

Thanks

mark

johnfelstead

if the remap is carried out properly, the engine should be in a safer condition after the remap, this is especially the case with JDM spec cars which are setup for 100RON fuel in OEM spec. If the remap isnt done properly, prepare for a big bill.

lordharding

iTrader: (1)

opinions please on

is it ok to just have a full decat on a MY00 (and sti filter)

or does it need a re map to prolong engine life !!!!

30k since new always serviced warmed up etc

but i like to drive it

Am i panicking too much as i love the lastof the classics apart from MPG

or should i cut my losses and get a new 05 modle ?

pat

Deep,

there are lots of people out there that just haven't got a clue how to look after an engine, and seem to be able to kill even standard ones, either by lack of mechanical sympathy or simple ignorance. Your safest bet, as per previous PM, is to buy a car with a blown engine and get a decent one built by a reputable engine builder, run a good quality fully synthetic oil (high ester content) and oil cooler, and don't rev the thing too hard!

Cheers,

Pat.

washer

my sti runs on min oil now at 38k as reco by a engine builder if it goes bang the cost is down to him

Bubba po

I'm positive that the thing that kills scoob engines more than any other factor is people chasing maximum speed. Should there be a poll?

malibuda

i agreed with Pat that a lot of people do not know how to look after a engine
i think that there a lot more scoobys that are ok then the ones with engine failure
i heard that e46 M3 have a lot of engine failure and i think that you have to take special care with our car (regular oil change on so on) if it is sti or cars with modds
do the service on time and do not push it for more than it is made for. If you what a faster car buy porshe turbo
That is how i look at things

MattPiece

It doesnt necessarily need a remap to prolong engine life, but if you wanted to increase the very long odds of getting engine failure, then yes. A professionally done remap also can maximise the power of a decat and in some cases, lead to better mpg. They'll also offer advice on how far you want the remap to go, taking in consideration your internals, turbo, fuel pump, etc. BTW, a Knocklink will pick up det problems to give you early indications of possible fuelling probs.

As the guys have said here, some owners have tried to shortcut their way to max power without due consideration to their engine spec and hence have been left with costly rebuilds.

FWIW, I run an STi Version 5 with a full decat. I havent had a remap and (touchwood) its has been running very well for 30K miles (now at 74K). Everything else in the engine is standard. I will eventually (when finances permit ) get a remap so I can maximise my power based on what I have and mpg.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Our experience here at APi Engines after close on 600 rebuilds in 4 1/2 years comes down to the following.

Many cars have only been in the possession of the current driver [ who broke the engine ] for less than 3 weeks. Supposition is that they've not learnt how to drive it properly yet and rev the brains out of it and it won't take it. The red line is created by Subaru, but in practise the actual advisable red line on a standard car is some 500 rpm below the mark on the dial.

Running on wrong fuel on an import car. Detonation.

Inappropriate mods - nitrous fitted badly etc etc., un-remapped ecu's after an induction set and decat system fitted. Shift more air through the system you WILL NEED to add more fuel through the ecu.

OR perhaps most tellingly, 90 % of the cars that arrive here with broken engines are either on the fuel light or nearly on the fuel light. Suggesting that low fuel creates a weak mixture - detonation sets in and off she goes.

OR high road speed creating less air going through the top mount Intercooler heat soak sets in, fuel /air ratio weakens, detonation - bang. The bonnet scoop in standard form is remarkably inefficient above about 110 MPH

NEVER seen a 'failed' oil pump. In all those jobs, only ever fitted 3 new pumps because of debris damage.

David APi Engines / APi Impreza
www.apiengines.com

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Makes alot of sense does our David!!

robinH20MRV

well..........when i first got my 95 wrx it was fine, all i did was fit a decat system and a k+n panel filter, no probs, even with my lead foot! then.........i took it to a "subaru expert" in perth, result? bang!! back to them again for a rebuild then a run in, next? bang! then i fitted a second hand scoobysport ra engine myself, cool, no probs, run it in for 500 miles just to bed it it in, then the first time i hoof it...............bang!!!

at that i gave up and traded it in for a ra from www.powervehicles.com for........yes a wrx ra!!! no problems!! then i sold that and now i run a 360bhp sti 8 ra,
and i still love my scoobys!!

but a lot of the old one have been thrashed to death no doubt, so my advise is only buy a sti as new and unmodded as poss, UNLESS it has been modded by andy forrest, rcm, tsl or the like, the real "top guns" of the bizand the car has a service history to choke a horse!!

i m h o !!!! ( ps i also run a legacy as my second car)

cheers robin.

markwild

Also worth pointing out that there are some with higher mileage too - I've had mine since standard at 41K miles and its now at 135000 - been asking myself whether I should continue modding since it had 75K on the clock () - but RR'd on Friday last week @ scoobyclinic is now showing 320hp/300lbsft

Runs to 6500 rpm regularly (several times a day !), but I don't do high speed (>120mph) runs (And I've a FMIC)....

Always allowed to warm up and cool down....

Mark

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

One our customers bought a 50 odd year old friends STi 6 car that he had from new, full service history 27,000 miles warranted mileage etc etc.

BANG inside 2 weeks.

David APi Engines / APi Impreza

CJAF7R

hmmm you lot have got me worried now

iv only owned my MY95 for a week, it has 74k on the clock, but it runs sweet as a nut (other than a tad of hessitation from freezing cold). iv fitted a knocklink and have found a slight bit of dett at high revs in 3rd, so am driving it steady untill iv got that sorted, just worries me a bit that it may have been detting prior to this. The previous owner hardly used the car at all, and only used it for short trips, always let it warm up and down, changed the oil every 3k, etc.

He had it regularly serviced, with no expense spared. the whole car is absolutely mint, but if the engine went i would be up **** creak without a paddle after forking out for the car, insurance and tax.

the car has never had boost upped, only mods are full exhaust, decat.

MattPiece

Sounds like you've taken every precaution to ensure the car runs fine. As Dave from APi Engines says, alot of the engine failures are from poor fitting mods and thrashing. These cars maybe rally related, but at the end of the day they are not rally cars and need to be treated respectfully. Do that, and I'm sure the car will last.

madou

Amen. Not everyone will bother to learn, and/or spend GBP 1K per year maintaining what is at most GBP 10K car for the "classic" shape

Deep Singh

Even more shocking. If David has rebuilt 600 engines himself then how many rebuilt across the country? Its got to be thousands and thousands.
I understand some will have not been properly loved, but thats not the case in anywhere near all of them.

Though a high powered highly tuned turbo car needs to be treated with respect it should'nt have to be treated like a newborn baby.

Evos(for example) will have also had exhaust/filters fitted, been run on bad fuel,revved hard etc etc but you d'ont hear about thousands(or appropriate %age) of them going bang.

David mentions 90% of cars were on low fuel. So someone has a rough day at work forgets to top up and ends up with a £5k bill, thats bad build quality not a lack of respect for a performance car, is'nt it?

Owning a Scoob seems to be an exercise in extreme vigilance

And before someone has a fit and accuses me of slating Scoobs, thats not my intention, I'm just discussing the issues with the like minded

Deep

madou

Fuel surge on low tank, hence Powerstation.org swirl pot

"The Subaru Impreza suffers badly from fuel surge when the fuel level drops below 1/4 tank. This can cause misfires or even the complete destruction of the engine if the car is being used hard."

and various other fixes, I try to leave at least 15l in the tank

Deep Singh

Madou, I d'ont doubt the info. When I last had a Scoob I also kept tank half full and had an uprated fuel pump( and KL and remap,etc) Thats not my point. You c'ant expect a newbie who buys a Scoob to have spent hours trawling the internet first and use OB,keep fuel level up,install knock link, not go above 110 mph, not nail it after being standstill on a hot day, use that trick when you change the oil(c'ant remember what that is) watch out for faulty MAFs etc etc. The list goes on...

My point is that for a new( uninitiated) owner the Scoob is almost an accident waiting to happen. None of this info comes in the owners manual after all.

Not meaning to harp on about Evos(never owned one, d'ont really like the look of em)
but its the obvious comparison and they d'ont seem to be so highly strung

In any other field( ie aeronautics, medicine) if an untoward incident happens time after time the system must be fundamentally at fault rather then the individual.

Deep

mag6/4

never had any probs like that with mine 94 uk turbo fulldecat pipercross induction
with 110k on clock just the gearbox beairings got noisey at 102k this is all it has cost me in just over 5 years of having a scoob (part from genrel servicing costs oil pads disc ect)
chris

Tim-H

Another one that kill`s them is oil starvation on hard cornering with high rev`s , the thing`s grip so well the oil will not "fall" in the sump quick enough, the oil pump cavitates and that`s where AFAIR number 3 rod always go`s first,
The first thing you do to a gp N rally car is sort the sump out , also the pickup clearance can be closed up a bit more, mine was 14mm now 7 mm, (on ARC alloy sump)
Have a good one
Tim

ps the above was learnt the expensive way :-)

jjones

funny you say that but a friend of a friend works at prodrive and he recommended to me if i drive hard to replace sump with a baffled affair and the other thing he recommended was uprated cam belt tensioners.

i told him i drive like a sissy so he said i should be ok

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Horses for courses with these things.

One thing you have to bear in mind is the power this engine produces, the relatively narrow bigend bearings and it only having 4 cylinders. Each piston, and more importantly each big end bearing has to cope with 52 to 70bhp as standard (depending on spec).

As a general ruling on any basic engine 50bhp per cylinder is pretty much the maximum reliable power output. This is without using larger bearings and stronger materials. Then think that the scooby engine is doing this with smaller than average sized bearings. It's not a design flaw, it's the limit of engineering. It has been designed to have "adequate" durability and lifespan under "NORMAL driving conditions".

As soon as you start blasting it up the motorway at 100+ on a regular basis, winding it up through every gear round the lanes, tracks days, drag strips, and not to forget modifications. I should add engine abuse too....stalling, nearly stalling, bad clutch control (shock loads at low rpm - inducing low speed detonation as the engine tries to keep running) and labouring. "normal driving conditions" does not apply, and hence bye bye engine durability and lifespan.

Under the same generic ruling goes the oil selection. Typically 10w-40 it says in the manual on a 93-99 UK car "under normal driving conditions". Have a look under the heading in the same manual for "SEVERE driving conditions" and you'll have a list of completely different oil grades, more suited to hard use. ALTHOUGH, oil is not the sole cause...it's only a contribitary factor that combined with other vehicle and driver/owner failings that cause engines to fail.

As said previously - mechanical sympathy and ignorance being the main killer. Not being able to "feel" a missfire or a slight flatspot or surge in the revband. If the engine isn't running right, fix it not thrape it! The industry doesn't help either as even some garages can't pickup on small tell tale signs of a fault that could lead to a serious failure. Subaru's engine managment system (along with many other manufacturers), leaves a lot to be desired in maintaining safe fueling/ignition when a critical component such as the MAF sensor is under-reading airflow.