Does a TD05 always give laggy performance?
03 November 2004, 02:53 PM
#1
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Does a TD05 always give laggy performance?
Should have some funds to play with shortly and am thinking two options. If its a small amount its going on suspension mods all the way.
However, if its a more then I'd quite like to increase power. Car is an MY00 with full de-cat and K&N panel and has TEK2. What I'd like is an power increase as close to 300bhp/300lbft as possible. Don't want to go any higher as the car is used daily so has to remain as reliable as possible. Just want some more power without sacrificing driveability.
Theres lots of talk about fitting TD05s to UK turbos but also talk about this turbo making performance quite laggy. What other turbo options are available that will safely produce the performance I'm after. IC wise although FMICs look nice and mean and folks will suspect you mean business they also seem to increase lag from what I've read on SN. STi8 IC would seem the best bet giving (I assume) lower intake temps without as much lag.
Please put me right if I'm talking complete tosh! won't be the first time
However, if its a more then I'd quite like to increase power. Car is an MY00 with full de-cat and K&N panel and has TEK2. What I'd like is an power increase as close to 300bhp/300lbft as possible. Don't want to go any higher as the car is used daily so has to remain as reliable as possible. Just want some more power without sacrificing driveability.
Theres lots of talk about fitting TD05s to UK turbos but also talk about this turbo making performance quite laggy. What other turbo options are available that will safely produce the performance I'm after. IC wise although FMICs look nice and mean and folks will suspect you mean business they also seem to increase lag from what I've read on SN. STi8 IC would seem the best bet giving (I assume) lower intake temps without as much lag.
Please put me right if I'm talking complete tosh! won't be the first time
03 November 2004, 03:39 PM
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I suggest:
VF35
Remap
Intercooler hoses
Knocklink
Walbro fuel pump
For only the 10-15% gain in power you're talking about I think you would be disappointed by the lag of a TD05. I wouldn't push the torque too hard for the sake of the small turbo and the gearbox/clutch, try about 18 PSI midrange - this may, oh a guess, about 280 lbft.
VF35
Remap
Intercooler hoses
Knocklink
Walbro fuel pump
For only the 10-15% gain in power you're talking about I think you would be disappointed by the lag of a TD05. I wouldn't push the torque too hard for the sake of the small turbo and the gearbox/clutch, try about 18 PSI midrange - this may, oh a guess, about 280 lbft.
03 November 2004, 04:33 PM
#3
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Thankyou for that advice John.
Where would I normally find a VF35 residing? When you say not to push the torque for the sake of the small turbo I take it you mean the VF35? My only main concern is that nothing is stressed anymore than it need be as you can imagine.
Would the STI8 IC be a requirement too? they seem to be not too hard to get hold of and not too hard to fit. Not sure I'd like to change the turbo myself though I must admit.
I've got a knocklink and oil temp, pressure, AFR and boost guages already so I hope they'll help me keep an eye on things.
Lastly, can the TEK2 be remapped to suit these mods? I was kind of under the impression I'd have to pay for TEK3 mapping all over again.
Is 300lbft just asking for trouble regarding the 'box? what I'm after is just a bit more of a shove in the back than what it is now. The way the car is now is OK but I thought the "Shove" would be more after the TEK2 map was done.
Sorry for yet more Qs btw.
Where would I normally find a VF35 residing? When you say not to push the torque for the sake of the small turbo I take it you mean the VF35? My only main concern is that nothing is stressed anymore than it need be as you can imagine.
Would the STI8 IC be a requirement too? they seem to be not too hard to get hold of and not too hard to fit. Not sure I'd like to change the turbo myself though I must admit.
I've got a knocklink and oil temp, pressure, AFR and boost guages already so I hope they'll help me keep an eye on things.
Lastly, can the TEK2 be remapped to suit these mods? I was kind of under the impression I'd have to pay for TEK3 mapping all over again.
Is 300lbft just asking for trouble regarding the 'box? what I'm after is just a bit more of a shove in the back than what it is now. The way the car is now is OK but I thought the "Shove" would be more after the TEK2 map was done.
Sorry for yet more Qs btw.
03 November 2004, 04:56 PM
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Your ECU can be remapped, what the tuner calls it or charges for it is between you and the tuner. You save them their license fee to Ecutek as you should already have one in your Tek 2.
Shove will be torque=fun, that is what needs boost or cubes, that is what will break your gearbox. I was suggesting the VF35 so that it is well matched to hopefully be not too damaging to your gearbox torque levels whilst giving you minimal lag.
If you get a TD05 and use it to anything like its capacity, your gearbox will be on borrowed time. After 1 week at about 300-320 lbft of torque for the first time on a TD05, my previously fine 3rd gear completely shredded all the teeth off. A TD05 with a good bit of boost behind it is a weapon
Shove will be torque=fun, that is what needs boost or cubes, that is what will break your gearbox. I was suggesting the VF35 so that it is well matched to hopefully be not too damaging to your gearbox torque levels whilst giving you minimal lag.
If you get a TD05 and use it to anything like its capacity, your gearbox will be on borrowed time. After 1 week at about 300-320 lbft of torque for the first time on a TD05, my previously fine 3rd gear completely shredded all the teeth off. A TD05 with a good bit of boost behind it is a weapon
03 November 2004, 06:08 PM
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Another option might be the hybrid TD04, which allegedly gives no more lag than a normal TD04 but better mid-high performance, and might get close to 300/300? I think John Banks played with one of these a few years back (unless my memory is failing me), so could comment better than I can.
The other turbo I always wonder about - but have not hear a lot about either way - is the APS SR30. IIRC it's roller bearing and small(ish) so ought to spool well, but probably good for a little over 300 bhp? Just need to find someone who has actually proved it works!!! Downside for this option is probably the high cost.
Both cases, I'm throwing in options I'd look into, but haven't got the experience to comment how well they'd work, so feel free to ignore me!!
Edit to add - whichever turbo you go with, I'd also recommend changing your inlet hose, as that does help spool-up point a bit even on a lowly TD04.
The other turbo I always wonder about - but have not hear a lot about either way - is the APS SR30. IIRC it's roller bearing and small(ish) so ought to spool well, but probably good for a little over 300 bhp? Just need to find someone who has actually proved it works!!! Downside for this option is probably the high cost.
Both cases, I'm throwing in options I'd look into, but haven't got the experience to comment how well they'd work, so feel free to ignore me!!
Edit to add - whichever turbo you go with, I'd also recommend changing your inlet hose, as that does help spool-up point a bit even on a lowly TD04.
Last edited by hades; 03 November 2004 at 06:11 PM.
03 November 2004, 06:10 PM
#7
Originally Posted by hades
Another option might be hybrid TD04, which would give no more lag than a normal TD04 and might get close to 300/300? IIRC, JB has played with these two a few years back, so could comment better than me.
The other turbo I always wonder about - but have not hear a lot about either way - is the APS SR30. IIRC it's roller bearing and small(ish) so ought to spool well, but probably good for a little over 300 bhp? Just need to find someone who has actually proved it works!!! Downside for this option is probably the high cost.
Both cases, I'm throwing in options I'd look into, but haven't got the experience to comment how well they'd work, so feel free to ignore me!!
The other turbo I always wonder about - but have not hear a lot about either way - is the APS SR30. IIRC it's roller bearing and small(ish) so ought to spool well, but probably good for a little over 300 bhp? Just need to find someone who has actually proved it works!!! Downside for this option is probably the high cost.
Both cases, I'm throwing in options I'd look into, but haven't got the experience to comment how well they'd work, so feel free to ignore me!!
Neilo has one of these turbo's fitted to his car and he is getting his car R&R'd at the weekend
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03 November 2004, 07:23 PM
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I liked the hybrid TD04, but the gains were subtle, if you are going to the effort of changing the turbo I think a step to the slightly more powerful VF35 would be more worthwhile. The SR30 felt very much like a VF35 to me.
*ROUGH GUESSTIMATES*
:
I reckon the VF35 spools about 300 RPM later than the TD04 and offers about 50 BHP more. TD05 is about 200 RPM later again and is about another 30-40 BHP again. VF34 feels somewhere in between. All feel to me to be good compromises. TD04 hybrid is about 20 BHP over the TD04, spools about 100 RPM later, if that.
*ROUGH GUESSTIMATES*
:I reckon the VF35 spools about 300 RPM later than the TD04 and offers about 50 BHP more. TD05 is about 200 RPM later again and is about another 30-40 BHP again. VF34 feels somewhere in between. All feel to me to be good compromises. TD04 hybrid is about 20 BHP over the TD04, spools about 100 RPM later, if that.
03 November 2004, 09:06 PM
#19
John , with the following mods car was 378 bhp (well lane) K,N induction, MRT ,fmic, 05turbo, Apexi ecu (andy F) Full de catt, SX reg, up rated pump, manual boost control, gruppe S headers and flexi up pipe oil catch tank, 550 injecters, lightend flywheel, ngk 7 plugs, AP clutch (new) new gearbox 4th , lol , so what extra with the 05/06, just 40bhp ??? thanks Alan.
?
04 November 2004, 09:49 AM
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Alan, you would get nearer to the 400 with the 05/06, i think your current setup is more like a 330ish motor than a 380, but then that was comparing it with my 2.0l and the 2.5l.
As i said when you went out in my car, you were more impressed with the torque delivery rather than the out and out power, but then thats the 2.5 for you.
Before you start thinking of anything else, have you got the current problem sorted yet? or is Andy still looking at it?
Steven
As i said when you went out in my car, you were more impressed with the torque delivery rather than the out and out power, but then thats the 2.5 for you.
Before you start thinking of anything else, have you got the current problem sorted yet? or is Andy still looking at it?
Steven
05 November 2004, 06:06 PM
#26
John , car was at well lane about 5 months ago it showed 380 bhp there, Steven has done a lot off work on my car he thinks it is more like 330bhp , Its certanly no were near his, Anyway my cars been off the road for 3 weeks now , Harvey has it at the mo , then its going to Andy F , Cos its a ecu fault , we think ??? cheers,
05 November 2004, 08:02 PM
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alan, last time i was out in your car it was making 1.1 bar boost, when you had it at well lane it was running 1.5 bar.
not sure why the boost had dropped but it looks to me like someone may had adjusted it!
andy set it up at 1.5.
not sure why the boost had dropped but it looks to me like someone may had adjusted it!
andy set it up at 1.5.
Last edited by jonny gav; 05 November 2004 at 08:15 PM.
07 November 2004, 07:28 AM
#29
Stevebt:
So what was the mod to the 5 speeder?
Soon I will have a spec similar to alanbell except for an Sti8 TMIC and stock flywheel. The base engine is an Sti v3.
It's a hill climb car so drag race starts and pedal to the metal all the way for 60 seconds racing.
The trans is stock sti v3 (AP organic) on 4.11 difs. Thinking of a 6 speeder before next season starts in March = £2000.
What have you done to your trans, and would it take this engine spec reliably?
911
So what was the mod to the 5 speeder?
Soon I will have a spec similar to alanbell except for an Sti8 TMIC and stock flywheel. The base engine is an Sti v3.
It's a hill climb car so drag race starts and pedal to the metal all the way for 60 seconds racing.
The trans is stock sti v3 (AP organic) on 4.11 difs. Thinking of a 6 speeder before next season starts in March = £2000.
What have you done to your trans, and would it take this engine spec reliably?
911
07 November 2004, 08:08 AM
#30
Originally Posted by 911
Stevebt:
So what was the mod to the 5 speeder?
Soon I will have a spec similar to alanbell except for an Sti8 TMIC and stock flywheel. The base engine is an Sti v3.
It's a hill climb car so drag race starts and pedal to the metal all the way for 60 seconds racing.
The trans is stock sti v3 (AP organic) on 4.11 difs. Thinking of a 6 speeder before next season starts in March = £2000.
What have you done to your trans, and would it take this engine spec reliably?
911
So what was the mod to the 5 speeder?
Soon I will have a spec similar to alanbell except for an Sti8 TMIC and stock flywheel. The base engine is an Sti v3.
It's a hill climb car so drag race starts and pedal to the metal all the way for 60 seconds racing.
The trans is stock sti v3 (AP organic) on 4.11 difs. Thinking of a 6 speeder before next season starts in March = £2000.
What have you done to your trans, and would it take this engine spec reliably?
911
its just an RA gearset
but holds up really well, as john says a tdo5 smashes the gearboxs with good torque and i ran my td05 for 4 months and ive had this td05/06 on for 3 months so i assume im safe your spec will be very similar to mine so so i think your engine will be safe as mine is just a standard uk while yours is an sti engine
your gonna put the stuff on your car anyway so why worry if it will smash it just do it and find out