drb5

iTrader: (4)

what are my options on unequal length headers to keep the same noise as i have just now? i remember reading on here somewhere the hks changed the note to a more motorbike sound, which i don't want and equal length headers are therefore a no-no, so what are my choices?

Pavlo

gruppe-s

drb5

iTrader: (4)

simple and straight to the point.....i like it!

drb5

iTrader: (4)

would it be a bad idea fitting them while running 440's and this list?.......
Front entry TD05 turbo
REVOLUTION full three inch bore s/s exhaust
APEXI induction kit
WALBORO fuel pump
F.S.E. fuel pressure regulator
J.E. pistons
EAGLE rods
modified ROGER CLARK MOTORSPORT oil pump
modified ROGER CLARK MOTORSPORT bearings
NGK PF7R PLATINUM spark plugs
SAMCO coolant and turbo hoses
HELIX oil catch can
K&N breather filter
avcr running max boost 1.4 bar
hks type-s fmic
LINK ecu

Pavlo

440s should do it for now, but you should really be looking at lowering the boost at the top end to 1.2 bar with headers. If injectors are keeping up try going up a little more, 550s would be the ideal injector for those mods, but raised pressure on 440s may take you a long way yet.

I really like the sound of the Gruppe-s, burble still there at low speed (but less than factory headers obvioiusly), but give a nice deep howl on full chat and they still remove the drone when cruising on motorway too.

Paul

carlos_hiraoka

gruppe-s

drb5, that is a very similar setup to mine, I went back to the TMIC since i needed faster engine response for hillclimbing. 440's with 4 bar @ atm should be enough if u lower the boost, like Paul suggested, at top end. Start looking for a better clutch .....

Carlos Hiraoka

911

Gentlemen:
Why back -off the boost at high rpm with the headers? I run a max of 1.31 on my stock Sti. (is that why my head gaskets have gone?)
I'm with the TMIC for the hills, quicker to cool before a run too. Carlos, did you keep the STi TMIC or uprate?
I removed my uprated TMIC for the stock Sti v3 and go as quick up the hills.
If you change the 440 to 550 and fit a 255 pump (Walbro) will the stock Sti v3 keep control of the fueling?

Wish someone would do a tuning guide, from Mild to Wild! High torque v high bhp etc.

I think a common denominator is emmerging for me if i keep reading all this lot and asking all the questions...

Any comments that are not rude?
911

drb5

iTrader: (4)

i dont have any comments at all bud, except, i DO have the boost tailing off quite a bit at high revs. i found the kl likes to light up like a christmas tree when boost is kept high to the redline

and thanks for all the help guys

Pavlo

911,

The headers allow the car to produce more power at the same boost when compared to factory headers. If you are revving the car to 7000, you will find the power is probably still climbing until over 6000rpm with 1.2bar held on a td05. The the problem becomes one of maxing out the turbo or injectors or both.

To give you an idea of the difference, Andy Forrest gained about 35hp at the flywheel when changing to headers, despite 0.1bar less boost. John banks lost about 35hp at the wheels when putting facotry headers back on at same boost.

Unless you have a 32mm restrictor, headers are good all round in my opinion. Unrestricted cars will be holding most of peak power right up to the redline unless they are really maxing out the turbo, headers make good gains heres, but also good gains in the 4000-5000rpm zone in terms of torque.

Paul

911

Thanks as ever Pavlo, you should be in engine tuning sales!

I think my mind is made up for the upgrade on my Hill climber where torque comes first, but my aim is 350 bhp and 310 ish lbft:

Sti v3 engine.
Magnex 3'' decat.
Gruppe s v2 wrapped and H&S slipper up pipe.
Andy F demon hybrid (must read the thread agin to be specific)
550 cc Injectors
GEMS rallt ecu + Steve Simpson map.
Panel filter.
TMIC Stock v3 Sti unit.

That's it. done and dusted. Unless I'm wrong?
Just the head gaskets to fix as the bubbles in the coolant are as big as hot air balloons.
The hill climb this weekend may finish it all off sooner than I think.........
911

drb5

iTrader: (4)

wassat then? that another name for the 20g?

Pavlo

911,

I would go with just the 16g turbo to start with, it can be upgraded to 20g later. You may find the 16g is JUST what you want, as you can wind it up in midrange to create a very nice torque curve.

Still go with 550injectors, then the mapping will not be a big step if you upgrade turbo to 20g later. Also I would consider one of them gas intercooler chillers. I have wanted one for ages, but the CRD impreza has sealed it for me, ideal for drag racing or hill climbing with a TMIC. Budget option would be to run water spray for 100% of time whilst on the climb.

Paul

Richard Askew

Paul - do you mean the NOS spray bar by this?

Pavlo

Richard,

Yes, although waterspray is good as you can use it on the move. I would be wary of pumping lots of N20 into the engine bay as it may get injested by the engine and **** up the AFR.

Hillclimbs are typically a minute or so long, running a fine mist of water on the IC before the start and for the whole minute will work well. Rally cars use LOTS of water.

Paul

Richard Askew

Thanks Paul - I'll be having a chat with Graham (911) at Shelsley this weekend ref climbing and keeping the IC's cool.

Would spraying NOS onto a fine mist of water have better cooling properties?

Pavlo

you could use the NOS to cool the water if you wanted, but ideally you want the water evapourate from the IC to remove the heat. Drag racing I would say the NOS is best, hillclimb the water. Best of all would be NOS before the start then water on the run.

Paul

drb5

iTrader: (4)

may i ask, in what way is the NOS any different to being used as water?

911

Water is longer lasting!
I chill my TMIC with cold water (lots of it) before the run. Drown the IC with Iced water (yes Water with ice cubes in it), into the reservior for the TMIC spray. After the start switch on the water for the whole run.
TMIC is luke warm after a 59 sec hill climb. Uses about 1 litre of water!

Thanks for the turbo tip Pavlo. What torque do you think that set-up would make?
911

carlos_hiraoka

I went back to my STi TMIC .....

carlos_hiraoka

OK that is very very similar to my setup ...... I use a stock TD05-16g (front entry modified) with around 1.4 bar of boost in the midrange tappering to 1.2 bar at top end, cause at 1.4bar @ redline the turbo is just blowing "hot air" and I don't have enough intercooling to lower the inlet temps, but my power range is very good 3500 - 6500 rpm
Didn't need to go for bigger injectors as the 440 units will flow enough upto 350bhp.
I am using the gruppe-s unit with H&S uppipe, and my engine does have a higher CR.

Carlos H.

chrome

guys- have you seen that 'Cryo' cooling system (spray bar etc..) in DemonTweeks 'Race' Catalog ???

Would CO2 do the job more than competently than NO2?

Pavlo

CO2 would be a little less effective than NOS, but a hell of a lot cheaper to keep filling the bottle.

The whole gas things works like this:

Liquid CO2 or N20 is sprayed on to IC, it goes onto the IC as a liquid, as it evapourates it takes heat with it as it takes energy to change from liquid to gas. By the time it's completely evapourated it's taken a shed load of heat energy from it's surroundings, namely the IC itself and the air right beside it.

Water will work in the same way, it evapourates rather than quenches. But water has a HIGH latent heat, so it can take massive amounts of heat out. The gases however do not have the same heat removing capability in terms of total energy. THey do however cool down to much lower temps, as liquid N20 can still evapourated well below 0ºC which water can't, which is why it's able to literally freeze the intercooler.

It's a shame that IC water spray has a reputation as such a gimmick because it really does work.

Paul

RT

While still on the topic of aftermarket headers, has anyone ever experienced any "lift off" det after installing them? I remember a post some while back that one of the tuners saw quite bad lift off det with aftermarket headers on a classic's KL.

Typically, does timing have to be dropped significantly as these headers may increase the VE sufficiently enough to necessitate that?

Cheers.

carlos_hiraoka

No "lift off" problems in fact I had to add some timming in the vacuum zones .....

Carlos H.

RT

Carlos, tks for your feedback.

Yours are Gruppe-S headers on a classic, or new age? Just trying to figure which ECU we're dealing with here.
Thanks.