john banks

MY00 PPP with K&N induction - Falkland's new twin dump DP fitted today. The difference in performance is stunning - spool up is early and harder, and the thing just flies - on a favourite stretch of road quite literally. The most amazing thing is the lack of additional noise at low revs with the PPP exhaust bits - so much so that literally the wife would not notice - and for a downpipe that is impressive. It was notably much quieter than an identical car with Scoobysport DP - not sure why that might be - I think the mid and backbox on both cars were identical PPP bits.

One point of note is that 3/4 of the improvement was only felt after I reset the ECU - this is despite 15 miles of dual carriageway before the reset. Maybe it would have learned eventually, but even on MY00 PPP I would strongly recommend a reset.

The noises you get are quite nice - I think the PPP centre and BB are perhaps too restrictive to get pops and bangs, but that is just what I don't want. The backbox is also not any noticeably blowier. The F15 sound is now and F15 with an engine upgrade sound!

Some funny grinding type puslating noises occ whilst sitting in traffic/after backing off - don't know if this is the wastegate solenoid or what. Occasional rattly sound which sounds like the DP itself knocking against something - I know it's not the engine as it happens over the odd severe bump at low revs/coasting.

I haven't detected any overboost - I could tell when the PPP alone was doing it originally - was quite subtle, but went when 1.3mm restrictor put in instead of original 1.2mm. Still the 1.3mm one in.

john banks

Well, there was a slightly loose heatshield making an odd grinding noise and now it is quieter still. There was the odd hint of a muted pop on lift off this morning but nothing rozzer attracting. Sorry, starting to sound like a Max P/Revs chappie - but I spent yesterday in Falkland reading their stack of Revs/Max Power/occasional Evo.

Oh, and in the wet the engine is REALLY showing up those RE010 tyres. I'm working on wearing them down.... first excuse to change...

[This message has been edited by john banks (edited 07 September 2001).]

Disco

John, do you know if the Falkland is Stainless or Mild steel?

john banks

Stainless. And oh SO FAST!!!!

john banks

150+vat SIDC price for the pipe. almost 2 hours fitting. All in with vat £250.

From what other folk have said, would strongly advise fitting the more expensive RESONATED magnex centre to keep it all down a bit. A lot of people say the backbox also in particular modulates the sound and can keep a noisy DP in check.

From what I've heard, if you are stopped for roadside testing, then you just get a notice to take it to an MOT station for retesting. I may also try my car with the catted OEM centre on, but that could degrade performance somewhat?

Oh another thing - Falkland and prob others can lend you a double catted custom made centre section for "annual usage". I put an earlier post up about whether the new MOT regs could cause us trouble passing on just the OEM centre section, but got no reply, but if a twin cat centre is available I don't forsee problems.

[This message has been edited by john banks (edited 08 September 2001).]

LEE P

morning John! is that right about the back box? hell i better get resonated c/s then, dont want to be seriously loud just enough for people to know its a scoob when ive ust past em! so if i gett linched by the rozzers they will tel me to get a check, then i get a twin catted c/s annd get confirmation all is well and the rozzers will be happy? dont want to get points! i dont think ii could ride around with oem c/s on if i had down pipe and b/b on, it just woudnt be right, it would do me head in knowing it could be better. cheers Lee

john banks

People have passed on just the OEM centre section before. I suppose the knowledge that there is a locally available twin cat centre is nice if the MOT regs are tightened up. On the PPP of course the centre section is already decatted - apparently you can see right through it "straight through" but it has resonator bits where the old car was - it's the pipe fitted to late model STis.

Certainly my setup is not that noisy - the wife is far more bothered by the induction kit than the DP which she doesn't mind at all. I am thinking of putting a panel filter in the OEM airbox, as the present induction noise is a bit "girlie", but I was quite happy with the noise until the wife started complaining

mutant_matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by john banks:
<B>I am thinking of putting a panel filter in the OEM airbox, as the present induction noise is a bit "girlie", but I was quite happy with the noise until the wife started complaining [/quote]

You may want to have a chat to Craig@New Age Motorsport - he's selling an induction kit which puts the filter in the wing and is apparently very quiet . May be the best solution rather than going for the panel filter?...

Ta,

Matt

LEE P

Hi john! how long did it take to fit at falkland? and how much was it with fitting if you dont mind me asking? ive got magnex back box and when i get down pipe ill get centre section too! not sure what it wil sound like? just wondered if ya got caught by the busys what sort o fine do you get with decating?cheers Lee

matt b

John
i was chuffed last night to read your thread- a D/P that doesnt make the car sound like a dragster. my idea of a stealth mod is one that doesnt start the other half whinging!! like you ive got a my99 ppp but with an ITG panel and the cars noisy enough. am still craving more power so have been toying with a D/P for some time.
-where do you notice the gains and is it really that quiet?
-On this point i was wondering why de-catted cars are loud anyway.Is it that cats are used as resonators?
-If i do go for the Falkland and it is old bill rousingly loud are there bb's and c/sections out there that bring the db's right down without strangling the breathing/performance?
anybody got any recommendations?
Cheers

john banks

Notice the gains most in reduced turbo lag, faster and earlier spool up and absolutely manic pull right up to 7000rpm. It is coming on song from 2000rpm, by 2500 it is really pushing and by 3000rpm you are absolutely laughing your head off. Part of this joy is the PPP, but the downpipe makes almost the same difference again! It is really quiet - amazingly so - I even wondered if they had actually fitted it to start with - I really cannot tell the difference at idle inside the car. Above 4000rpm it is noticeably noisier - but in a way that is commensurate with the pace. I was very anxious about the noise - I am a doctor and use my car for visiting old ladies and some local gentry so I didn't want it raucous. My wife really wouldn't have noticed had I not told her - the induction kit is way louder below 4000rpm.

I think the cat produces restrictions hence the quietness. I don't know what it would be like with the OEM twin pipe backbox and centre - presumably even quieter. Overall the change from std to PPP is more noisy than PPP to DP, and most will tell you that the PPP is quieter than many backboxes. Seriously, a car with just a Scoobysport backbox sounds louder than a PPP with a DP.

Marty.S

Hi John,
am thinking of doing the same with my MY00 PPP
Do you have to reset the ecu?,i believe it is
2 connectors under the dash that you plug together

thanks
marty

john banks

Yes - as I said big improvement after resetting ECU. There are instruction on a recent thread in Drivetrain.

Marty.S

Thanks John,read the thread and sounds quite
straight forward,might try it tommorrow.

marty

john banks

Well, just been out for a run and it is overboosting slightly in 4th gear now. I'll remove the K&N tomorrow and see if it makes a difference and see what I think of the sound with the airbox back in with the DP. I am assuming that if there is a bit more restriction in the air intake then the boost will build a little slower and not overshoot. This is of the really subtle variety - just feels like boost is going up nicely in all gears, but in 4th it pulls back slightly and then builds again, and maybe repeats this a second time - all between 3200 and 3600 rpm.

The Saint

John,

A stupid question - how do you know when you are overboosting if you do not have a boost gauge ?


Thx

The Saint

John Stevenson

John, you mention a 1.2 and 1.3 mm restrictor, what's that and where does it live on the car ?

---john---

john banks

There is another thread in drivetrain called restrictors which gives more info. It's in a short pipe connected to the wastegate actuator - I know where it is on my car, but others would give you a more technical description of what it connects and where to find it.

john banks

You can feel it - when you've had it a few times and then looked at it on the Select Monitor, you can tell. It feels like it is spooling up well and then almost as if it pauses/holds back a bit before going again. The spool up overshoots the limit - almost like it is underdamped. On my car it is quite mild with a 1.3mm restrictor - if I put a 1.2mm in it is really obvious. With 1.3mm on a coldish night in third, and particularly fourth gears, if spooling from 2500-3500 under full throttle there is a slight lumpiness to the delivery. If you weren't looking for it you might not notice - it is not very abrupt like the full blown slam on the brakes overboost some folk get - maybe if it really overshoots. I am happy to live with it as it rarely happens, and in most gears at most engine speeds the peformance seems optimal. The overboost doesn't really seem to slow the car that much overall as it has spooled up very quickly, settles and then holds similar boost to a non-overboosting car. I'll see how the winter goes and maybe fit a boost gauge.

[This message has been edited by john banks (edited 09 September 2001).]

john banks

Well, the K&N came off and the wife liked the sound but there was a loss of power, so I've put it back on and it's staying there. No effect at all on the boost lumpiness, but as I say it only happens now and again.

The Saint

Still do not understand this overboost stuff..........

What are the symptoms and what are the (ahem) consequences ?


The Saint

john banks

Away for two days - will post more tomorrow night.

john banks

Well, when I fiddled with the 1.2mm restrictor I have realised that I went and put the 1.3mm restrictor back in at the other end of the pipe! IDIOT! Now put it where it was originally and all power delivery in every gear even in the cold is completely smooth with not boost undershoot and then stabilising. Don't know why this should affect things ?turbulence near the solenoid, but now it is fine, goes like stink and smoothly. Which is what is did immediately after DP fitted when the restrictor was in the original place - until I mucked it up by playing. Now I don't think I'll need to bother with boost controller or gauge.

john banks

Not lagged. Some say lagging is better as it leads to better gas flow because of the extra heat. Some say this is snake oil. Some say lagging makes it quieter, others not. I was absolutely paranoid about how loud it would be and I am happy with it unlagged. Nuff said. Still in a mighty puzzle about where exactly this restrictor is supposed to go.

K&N cone induction 57i. Is noticeably quicker as I realised when the wife got me to remove it. But quite noisy, and I was on the verge of selling it/swapping for a panel filter. But is does make a noticeable difference to performance and I actually like the sounds now.

BTW no back handers just a genuinely good product.

[This message has been edited by john banks (edited 12 September 2001).]

john banks

Now seen this and MTR said in his MY00 that the restrictor was nearest the T-piece! Confused, but it does work well at present.

Stelios

John,
Due to your post i bought one from Falkland as well go claim your commission ,good doctor .
Demon tweeks had less postage for the same kit but wot the heck i love scots!
Stelios

PS ill let u know how my MY00 PPP with KN panel behaves after fitment. If its too loud ill do a post mortem on jbanks!

john banks

It seems to me like induction noise is a far bigger issue than downpipe noise with a PPP centre and rear section.

matt b

John
2nd commission coming up i think! did you get your D/P lagged? any views on that either way as a means to keeping the sound down further?
what induction k&n kit are you running? ive got an ITG panel which has made no difference to performance at all.
cheers
matt

John Stevenson

John, I'll check my 5 dr tonight, its never been touched and see what end the restrictor is closest to.

---john---

John Stevenson

Sorry to take so long to reply, the Restrictor goes in the end nearest the T-piece. With the Chamfered end pressed into the pipe first.

---john---