Matt Churchill

I've seen some mention of failures on 99's. As I'm about to fit a K&N thought I'd ask the question.

How many problems have people had, and was it exactly traceable to the induction, I don't understand how simply having more air would knacker the MAF - maybe I'm thick (no agreeing though!!)

If it makes any difference I'm running a full Scoobysport system

Any comments greatly appreciated

Matt

Steve Breen

Two problems have been seen.

1. The induction kit does not filter to the correct level allowing the film sensor to be contaminated.

2. The mounting of the induction kit on the pipe to the MAF allows vibration and cracks the sensor.

So ensure that the filtration is good enough and the mounting of the induction kit does not allow any vibration through to the MAF.

Steve

chiark

Lack of filtration / Excess oil causing damage
Vibration causing failure
Turbulent airflow bending the MAF's film

More turbulent air could buffet the MAF causing it to fail. Paul McLouglin has found that some past failures have physically deformed the MAF, which would back this up... He's also experimented with a load cell to see what forces are at play on the MAF and has found that a trumpet smooths flow considerably.

he sells his own system based on a custom K&N cone with STI trumpet. It ain't cheap, but he guarantees your MAF and hasn't had one MAF failure in 100-odd installs...

mutant_matt

Hi Matt, how you doing?

I thought the other problem was that the oil used on some filters gets on the MAF and causes contamination that way....

Matt.

Stef

Once again, has anyone with a 'normal' K&N kit suffered a MAF failure either?

Stef.

Stef

Has anyone with a 'normal' K&N kit suffered a MAF failure?

Stef.

Doogsy

Yet to hear of failure with KN
Have had mine on almost a year no probs at all.
KN is almost dry no oil to contaminate.
Well stablised to the engine therefore little vibration. Very good filtration therefore nothing unwanted gets through.
Get it on Matt and feel the whoosh

[This message has been edited by Doogsy (edited 21 June 2001).]

WREXY

I have the APS kit with the K&N filter for 10 months no problems.

WREXY.

RichieS

WREXY, is that the one that sits in the front wing? If so, how do you rate it?

Richie.

Matt Churchill

It's on ... and w h o o o o o s h !

[This message has been edited by Matt Churchill (edited 21 June 2001).]

Gevor

I had little more than just a MAF failure. I blew up my engine due to lean air/fuel mixture. It happened after installing K&N panel filter. My MAF got contaminated and was reading incorrectly. I only noticed that after installing Lambda Link (and after engine rebuild).

Cheers,
Nick

WREXY

Richie,

Yes it is the one that sits in the wing.
As stable as the stock item as it is a straight bolt on kit that uses the standard holes to bolt to.

The first mod I did was exhaust and I noticed a difference of gain in performance. The second mod I did was the APS kit and I noticed a huge difference in power.

I cannot compare it to other kits as I have not been in a Scoob with a different one fitted. The shop I bought it from say that K&N filters do not allow water or oil to pass through. Don't know how true that is, but in 10 months, I've had no problems yet.

I like the idea of cold air feeding through the pipe with no contact with the warmer engine bay. That's why I went for it. Others will say that it makes no difference when the car is moving, as at speed the amount of air is huge so it does not matter if the air is warmer, cause you are getting large volumes of air into the engine bay which they argue is better than less cold air.

WREXY.

[This message has been edited by WREXY (edited 21 June 2001).]

WREXY

Just noticed that Nick had a huge problem. I think it's quite scary. I have to say it's the first case I've read on here with K&N filters causing this though, without doubting Nicks experience. Quite worrying. And his was just a panel filter.

You do need to be careful when cleaning and re oiling, as I suppose to much oil will do no good.

WREXY.

[This message has been edited by WREXY (edited 21 June 2001).]

WREXY

I just had a call from a friend who has a MY00 fitted with the STANDARD AIR FILTER settup and just told me he got a fault code for his MAF on the select monitor. The car has only done 15000miles. The car has the PPP package. Any comments?

WREXY.

chiark

I haven't heard of any MAF failures on K&N despite trying hard to find one - other than Nick's unfortunate incident.

Doesn't alter the fact that Paul guarantees his. I've given up with the group buy though - it must be just me who thinks that it's a good idea. Ho hum.

RichieS

Thanks for the info WREXY. I'll put my findings up when I have my APS fitted. Using a Grahame Goode one at the moment.

Richie.

WREXY

That will be excellent Richie. It will be tops to get a comparison from someone (you) that will have tried the two different types of induction kits. I await with great anticipation.

WREXY.

NDT

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by chiark:
<B>Lack of filtration / Excess oil causing damage
Vibration causing failure
Turbulent airflow bending the MAF's film

[/quote]

one other problem could be that the profile of the airflow across the sensor has changed

the hot film/wire is in the middle, and the ECU is calibrated to use the readings this gives.

If the induction kit etc changes the profile of the airflow (e.g. the bulk of the airflow is biased to one side of the tract) the sensor will give artificially low readings....

chiark

That's a damn good point! Turbulence could be a red herring - the basis for assuming turbulence was that Paul removed some MAFs that were bent out of shape... If the flow profile had changed, this would explain it too.

I look forward to the "Back to back" with the APS, as that unit also appeals and looks great VFM. Interestingly, GGR's filter uses the same filter as Paul uses for his, plus a "donut" trumpet to profile the air.

The APS uses a smaller K&N cone than GGR.

chiark

...and on that subject, would anyone potentially be interested in a group buy on the APS (arranged through NewAgeMotorsport, who have a banner ad on scoobynet)?

Price would be around 135 quid. Drop me a mail if interested - I would like to gauge interest before setting anything up.



[This message has been edited by chiark (edited 22 June 2001).]

Gevor

Well, in my case it was my fault. I used too much oil I guess. Some people say it's a problem of all air filters that use oil. On anither hand, I have a friend who went through 3 MAFs already, he had an HKS induction kit, which DOES NOT use oil... So he endend up with a standard filter box.

Cheers,
Nick

JIM THEO

Ok, has anybody a GGR induction kit with PPP?
Any comments?
I am thinking to fit one, and I am concerned about MAF failures (My2000 with PPP) and engine problems of course...
And between Paul's and GGR's kits why the second one is better and guarantee the MAF, while the filter is the same and both the designs seems good enough?
I have never heard about MAF failures with GGR's induction kit. Is this true?

Stef

Nick.
Sorry to hear about your engine.
I over-oiled my filter when I first cleaned it too. I found it too much hassle so now I just buy a new cone each time as they only cost £30.

Jim.
The GGR kit uses a K&N cone too so it's probably true they haven't caused any MAF failures.

I will probably be trying an APS kit on CK1 soon, assuming it fits.
I'm currently running a duct from the bumper to the filter anyway, so it will be interesting to see if it makes any difference.

Stef.